Oh M, I didn't mean you! I was just meant generally speaking and was mostly thinking out loud. I should have just said OTM and left it at that.
― ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ (~curious orange~), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 21:33 (twelve years ago) link
No - I think you elaborated really well!
― sarahel, Wednesday, 7 December 2011 21:34 (twelve years ago) link
how quick ppl are to pass p harsh and swift judgement on ppl
wish we could sb them too
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 7 December 2011 21:35 (twelve years ago) link
lol
― ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ (~curious orange~), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 21:36 (twelve years ago) link
I'm not a hanging judge and I fancy myself pretty circumspect, I just thought that what with ZS being newly back in the game, she should probably leave him be for awhile and not make it about her. PPl fail, ppl cheat, shit happens and I'm not privy to the dets enough to offer much more than sympathy but telling your ex they're moving on too fast speaks to a massive and unwelcome ego imo.
― M. White, Wednesday, 7 December 2011 21:37 (twelve years ago) link
I dunno if I don't disagree with you, E.
Yeah, in a relationship things aren't black-and-white for those ivolvec and at the end of (or throughout) a relationship you're not gonna be in a place where you judge- or want to judge- your partner's behaviour. Most ppl have been there and understand that, the scaled eyes and the whatnot.
But, from the neutral (or ZS-friendly, indeed) perspective I think it's fair to say 'nah that's bullshit behaviour' when there is clearly bullshit behaviour, y'know?
― bloating forecast: ruff swells (p much resigned to deems), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 23:01 (twelve years ago) link
i lost my sought-for jerry springer tone at the end there somewhat
― bloating forecast: ruff swells (p much resigned to deems), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 23:03 (twelve years ago) link
Darragh, I don't think you were actually disagreeing with me at all. I guess I just have to remind myself that ppl are looking out for the person involved and that's what matters most despite the fact that there are often reasons and complications for the bullshit behavior of the other person involved that might not be considered.
― ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ (~curious orange~), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 23:16 (twelve years ago) link
maybe i wasnt but i was judging u anyway
I am very mean & judgemental tbf
― bloating forecast: ruff swells (p much resigned to deems), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 23:24 (twelve years ago) link
I don't think there is much gray in the cheating dept: did you sleep with someone else? Did you have an agreement with your partner to be monogamous? If you answer yes to both those questions, then you cheated, you betrayed your partner. All the context in the world won't change those facts, including but not limited to: I was drunk; we were going through a rough patch, we were ” practically” broken up, we ” eventually” broke up anyway, my partner is a terrible person, my partner doesn't treat me right.
I might feel more compassion for the cheater in some contexts over others, but probably only if the cheater is my friend.
― smoove operator, Wednesday, 7 December 2011 23:28 (twelve years ago) link
I wasn't really talking about that in particular tbh and wouldn't necessarily agree with what you said there either.
― ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ (~curious orange~), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 23:33 (twelve years ago) link
lol I meant disagree, not agree
goddamn it e stand yr ground and FIGHT US
― bloating forecast: ruff swells (p much resigned to deems), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 23:34 (twelve years ago) link
I don't want to fight! You didn't say anything diff than what I said, really. I guess I just like to look at the big picture and realize that people are imperfect and sometimes do shitty things and while that sucks it doesn't necessarily make them a bad person.
― ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ (~curious orange~), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 23:36 (twelve years ago) link
I'm too tired to fight anyway and I've got dinner to make.
But I guess if the person on the receiving end of the shitty behavior is a friend it's often hard to do that esp if you don't know the other person at all.
― ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ (~curious orange~), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 23:39 (twelve years ago) link
Emotions/relationships are hard and people are complicated. I get pretty annoyed when people draw hard lines in issues of romance/partnerships about things that are really subjective, complicated, and relationship-specific. For the record, I am not excusing her or anyone's actions nor am I saying ZS doesn't have a right to be angry about this. It just irks me how quick ppl are to pass p harsh and swift judgement on ppl even when I realize that they're probably doing so to be supportive of their friend.
this is otmI kinda think this tendency is exemplified at its apex, can run wild, when these conversations happen online?, also; like a few of the things about it - how limited the information you're getting is, that it comes in one voice, that it's something you receive alone, that you don't even have, really, vicarious access to the antagonist's POV, etc - I can understand why it leaves so little room for rebuttal, or leads so clearly to one point of view, how dare they, or w/e. & that isn't bad, because I think the thing it elicits is maybe "I feel for you for feeling that way about it", & so we're sympathetic. but I get discomforted by the idea that anyone involved would feel they had a clear picture & felt confident about what had happened. relationships are the actual most complicated thing I think, I p much can't talk about them irl because I think you need ten thousand hours of conversation about the macro level dynamics involved before you can even get a sense of where anyone was coming from. in relationships you talk to someone for hours at night w/the lights off; trying to relay things that have happened w/soneone you were so profoundly entwined w/ can't easily be done w/others imo.
but also yeah i don't think you're disagreeing, & none of this precludes the kinda broadbrush "someone cheated on you" "that's p bad" exchanges itt
― Never translate German (schlump), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 23:40 (twelve years ago) link
Thanks Schlump. That was v well put imo.
― ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ (~curious orange~), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 23:41 (twelve years ago) link
think whatever the corrected version of yr:
post was otm, also, it being something i eventually kinda understood at least the complexity of, having previously been p binary about it all. that there's context doesn't diminish someone def having done wrong, or doesn't necessarily edge anything closer to being more inevitable or more forgiveable, etc, it just sometimes is a thing that helps you understand why someone did the thing they shouldn't have
― Never translate German (schlump), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 23:46 (twelve years ago) link
ehh, I'm gonna take a page from Mr. DJP's book and just flat out say that I genuinely believe a lot of (most of) people are actually a bonkers level of crazy and barely holding their shit together. maybe it's only by living with people for an extended period of time that you get to see the cracks well enough to know of the slobbering horror lying beneath, and also reveal your own seeping pits-of-hell insanity to somebody else. and once that revelation has happened, or happens in a hazy, smouldering always at the periphery of your vision way – once you've seen + revealed the skinless, raw, and pitiful aspects of all the parties in your own relationship - only then can you determine how well the standard rules of engagement w/r/t relationships apply to you.
― remy bean in exile, Wednesday, 7 December 2011 23:47 (twelve years ago) link
Both otm imo.
― ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ (~curious orange~), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 23:50 (twelve years ago) link
but... but... but I want life to be simple
― The Love Song of L. Alfred Sotosyn (dayo), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 23:57 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah well then, you're fuck. Sorry, man.
― ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ (~curious orange~), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 23:58 (twelve years ago) link
I don't think there is much gray in the cheating dept: did you sleep with someone else?
i would say this is pretty gray indeed!
what if you kissed someone else, what if you harbored lustful thoughts in your heart, etc. that line is going to be different for ppl in different relationships.
― mookieproof, Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:00 (twelve years ago) link
naaaaaaaaaah
― bloating forecast: ruff swells (p much resigned to deems), Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:27 (twelve years ago) link
^
― smoove operator, Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:28 (twelve years ago) link
I'm stranding betwween a v young lady and a much older man, q who derm to know each other by sight only. Guy just introduced himself a nd it's proceeding to hit on her
― smoove operator, Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:30 (twelve years ago) link
Standingalthough I do feel stranded
― smoove operator, Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:31 (twelve years ago) link
Exhibit #1:
http://willblogforfood.typepad.com/will_blog_for_food/images/lewinskydress.jpg
― remy bean in exile, Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:31 (twelve years ago) link
mookie otm
lol - where is this happening, Justine?
― ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ (~curious orange~), Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:31 (twelve years ago) link
wtf is that, R?
i mean the line might change but rarely that much and the fact of an event is a fairly definable boundary
― bloating forecast: ruff swells (p much resigned to deems), Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:31 (twelve years ago) link
Oh on the train!
― smoove operator, Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:32 (twelve years ago) link
I mean he's kinda handsome but clearly sleazy
― smoove operator, Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:33 (twelve years ago) link
She had a test -organic chem - to get to so she declined his offer to get a coffee
― smoove operator, Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:34 (twelve years ago) link
I don't think I could ever approach a complete stranger and hit on her
― The Love Song of L. Alfred Sotosyn (dayo), Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:34 (twelve years ago) link
that is the infamous blue dress that monica lewinsky wore when she was not having sexual relations w. billy
― remy bean in exile, Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:34 (twelve years ago) link
that's a good look for some dudes tbf
― bloating forecast: ruff swells (p much resigned to deems), Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:34 (twelve years ago) link
The definition of "cheating" might be reasonably clear, but the consequences or how diff ppl deal with it is completely all over the map. Some ppl will go "thats it no excuses, no 2nd gos, fuck u". Some forgive, work thru it. Some, if itwas just a kiss might even laugh it off.
― Leave town with an orange, and pretend you're laughing at it. (Trayce), Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:38 (twelve years ago) link
― The Love Song of L. Alfred Sotosyn (dayo), Thursday, December 8, 2011 12:34 AM (1 minute ago)
This is true, and something I always end up wondering about w/ the "men are conditioned to do this..." thing I read about on some other threads. When I was single, the primary fear of approaching somebody I found interesting/attractive, and a secondary (but no less potent) fear of coming across as creepy or douchey or domineering made it practically impossible to meet potential dates unless they were friend-circled first.
― remy bean in exile, Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:39 (twelve years ago) link
yep
― bloating forecast: ruff swells (p much resigned to deems), Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:40 (twelve years ago) link
When I was about 22 a guy asked me for a light and then after a few minutes of chit chat he asked if I wanted to go see his friend's band. I had recently resolved to be more spontaneous so I went. We had fun and wound up kissing goodnight at the train station. The next day I found out he was still in HS. I was p horrified but respected the hell out of his courage tbh.
― ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ (~curious orange~), Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:41 (twelve years ago) link
drunk is difft!
― bloating forecast: ruff swells (p much resigned to deems), Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:43 (twelve years ago) link
Just thinking about the sort of nerve it must take to ask a total stranger out like that dude on the train or my HS boyfriend of one night. lol.
― ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ (~curious orange~), Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:43 (twelve years ago) link
Oh that guy wasn't drunk. It was like 4 in the afternoon and we were on a street corner when we met.
― ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ (~curious orange~), Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:44 (twelve years ago) link
remy otm - the second factor not wanting to come across as creepy or douchey is a strong influence
― The Love Song of L. Alfred Sotosyn (dayo), Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:44 (twelve years ago) link
statutory makeout xps
― mookieproof, Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:44 (twelve years ago) link
you're arrested...for the crime of being fine
― The Love Song of L. Alfred Sotosyn (dayo), Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:45 (twelve years ago) link
I feel like maybe the best way to meet new girls at this point in my life is to buy a leather jacket and wayfarers and stand on a street corner and smoke
hmm
― The Love Song of L. Alfred Sotosyn (dayo), Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:46 (twelve years ago) link
he told all his friends he kissed a grownup imo
― bloating forecast: ruff swells (p much resigned to deems), Thursday, 8 December 2011 00:47 (twelve years ago) link