What ingredients are required for a place to become a rich breeding ground for art/music/poetry?

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TS: boredom or excitement?

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Paper!

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:06 (seventeen years ago) link

I've noticed that some very boring places (e.g. suburban Connecticut) produce very creative people, although of course urban centers probably produce the lion's share of arty types.

What was it about Athens, Georgia?

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:08 (seventeen years ago) link

What's that Orson Welles quote about Spain and teh cuckoo clock?

― Nu-Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:09 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost
Does it just take a small group of with-it people who then spark something that grows?

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Homosexuals.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:09 (seventeen years ago) link

ts: a diverse population vs a healthy middle class

― Dominique (dleone), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:10 (seventeen years ago) link

x-post (or is it?) -- Oh right, like ILX.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Double x-post actually.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:10 (seventeen years ago) link

er, make that Italy...

― Nu-Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, is it the place and conditions of that place, or just the people who coincidentally live there? Is there really a London sound/style? A New York look?

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Syphilis

― Michael White (Miguelito), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:11 (seventeen years ago) link

I've never read this, but it seems like it would probably answer the question:

http://www.cooltownstudios.com/images/riseofthecreativeclass2.jpg

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:12 (seventeen years ago) link

That book reads like a broken image.

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Ahah, I was going to say "consumption".

― Laurel (Laurel), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Hmmm, so it does. It was supposed to be Richard Florida's The Rise of the Creative Class.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:14 (seventeen years ago) link

The thing with Athens seems pretty straightforward: loads of college students, but in a city "small" enough that they still have reason to organize their own arts stuff.

(There seems to be a kind of sweet spot with regard to size, where there's enough people and space to support an arts scene, but it's still small enough that e.g. college students can legitimately get really involved in organizing the stuff.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh, also:

- notebooks
- a barn to have the musical in

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Gee whillikers.

The key factor surely has to be organization -- if there's nobody around with any specific energy and way to harness it, nothing happens no matter how talented folks might be.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:16 (seventeen years ago) link

surplus food

― m00kiepr00f (m00kiepr00f), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:17 (seventeen years ago) link

For a very specific manifestation:

-record shops that sell used discs & local music
-radio stations that play local music
-enough venues that are easily accessible to both touring and local up & coming bands
-an alt-weekly
-cheap performance space
-a local university

I suspect that somebody like Jared Diamond would have much to say on the subject.

― they be stealin' kingfish's bucket (kingfish), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:19 (seventeen years ago) link

The key factor surely has to be organization -- if there's nobody around with any specific energy and way to harness it, nothing happens no matter how talented folks might be.

In my experience, this is something which is more a function of smaller towns rather than large cities.

People who grow up in the middle of nowhere seem to know that they have to create their own fun, and end up learning those organisational skills. People who grow up in big cities end up associating fun with something that someone else organises, and why do your own thing if there are a dozen other places in town you could go to for your aesthetic needs.

The best combination is people who have grown up in small scenes, but then "grow out" of them and go elsewhere, then do their own thing in a scene large enough to actually support it.

― in the case of masonic attack (kate), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:20 (seventeen years ago) link

Is about 100,000 the best population for a creative little city?

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:23 (seventeen years ago) link

I agree, Kate, but I wouldn't say it's just about learning how to create your own fun -- organizing those sorts of things is actively harder in big cities. It's not just that city folk never learned how to put stuff together, it's that promoting an event in NYC is a whole different ball game than having a show in your basement in Colorado.

Though you're right that people from a certain size town -- not large, but not small -- tend to be the ones who've been booking VFW shows since they were 14.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:24 (seventeen years ago) link

What is better for creativity: adversity or comfort?

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:25 (seventeen years ago) link

I.e. better to be from the hood or from a university town?

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:25 (seventeen years ago) link

I've got a show booked at the local Portuguese American Club tomorrow night - a ballyhootennany.

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Just speaking of the VFW.

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:27 (seventeen years ago) link

cheap rents, large spaces, weak code enforcement.

― Brian Miller (Brian Miller), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:27 (seventeen years ago) link

we have none of those things here, yet our local scene is not bad.

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:29 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.4-makingmoney.com/images/money.jpg

― nuneb (nuneb), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:30 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost
but we do have a great record store and a guy who brings musicians to perform there, and there used to be an all-ages coffee shop that had open mic (sorry, Beth) nights that were frankly painful but that gave up-and-comers a place to bring their scribbles and songs and that seems to have given wings to some people.

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:31 (seventeen years ago) link

I just found myself gazing amorously at that pile of money.

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:32 (seventeen years ago) link

There's a great essay in the out-of-print Rolling Stone's Alt-Rock-A-Rama about this kinda thing

― they be stealin' kingfish's bucket (kingfish), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh man, yeah, nothing helps like a cafe where people can get up and do not-so-good things without anyone minding -- they get to develop, and people can actually be supportive of it, since no matter how bad it is, at least something's happening.

When I moved to a small town in Michigan, a couple guys had also just gone there from Colorado, and started a cafe: within months, it had not only created its own social scene, but there were just more and more and more bands in town, just by virtue of having a place to play. By a couple years after they opened, all those bands had played off each other and traded members and developed to the point where a lot of them were doing surprisingly cool things.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:39 (seventeen years ago) link

PATRONS

― Brian Miller (Brian Miller), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:40 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah i think a third place sorta place (bar, cafe, bookstore) is a crucial factor.

― Mr. Que (Party with me Punker), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:40 (seventeen years ago) link

cheap rents, large spaces, weak code enforcement.

-- Brian Miller (yourjobisyourcredi...), February 16th, 2007 6:27 PM. (Brian Miller) (later) (link)

this is the most otm thing on this thread

― a_p (a_p), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:43 (seventeen years ago) link

also dead yuppie lawyers who leave behind stacks of money=always a good thing

― Mr. Que (Party with me Punker), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Seconded

xpost

― Michael White (Miguelito), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:46 (seventeen years ago) link

What about the visual arts? Is it safe to say that large, diverse, urban places are best for the visual arts? Or is it again a matter of wall space to show on?

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:48 (seventeen years ago) link

wall space is incredibly important - and it's very important that the space is taken seriously by the local artist/collector population. There can be an art gallery that's not taken seriously can have much less impact than a coffee house that's noted for showing good work.

― Brian Miller (Brian Miller), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:52 (seventeen years ago) link

that was a dud sentence but the meaning is there, sort of.

― Brian Miller (Brian Miller), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:53 (seventeen years ago) link

You probably also need lots of jobs for waiters.

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:54 (seventeen years ago) link

good coffeeshops are essential

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Does it just take a small group of with-it people who then spark something that grows?

This is the most important thing, I think. Like the brass band scene here in Madison WI, it just took a couple of dudes who started a band and stuck with it. Then some other dudes from that band started their own band and stuck with it, and now there are umpteen high school and college bands that only exist because they saw these older dudes doing it and got inspired.

― JordanC (JordanC), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:55 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost
lots of snooty galleries = death of spark

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 18:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Lots of snooty galleries that show good work = spark!

You can pretty much judge a gallerie's contribution to an art scene by how many art students come to the openings. Nobody under 22 = uh oh.

― Brian Miller (Brian Miller), Friday, 16 February 2007 19:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, actually snooty galleries are okay by me as long as their are not-so-snooty galleries around to balance them out.

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Friday, 16 February 2007 19:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Talent.

― After two days in hospital I took a turn for the nurse. (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rain, Friday, 16 February 2007 19:36 (seventeen years ago) link

C'mon, that's not actually true!

― Laurel (Laurel), Friday, 16 February 2007 19:38 (seventeen years ago) link

I suppose that depends on what the definition of "rich" is.

― After two days in hospital I took a turn for the nurse. (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rain, Friday, 16 February 2007 19:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Rich kids who don't have to hold down a supporting job x mentally unstable kids of any class.

― Is John Kosmina Gonna Have To Choke A Bitch? (pato.g27), Friday, 16 February 2007 19:50 (seventeen years ago) link

= Providence

― Nu-Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 16 February 2007 19:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Shouldn't it be, ideally, what rich breeding grounds are there for art/music/poetry?
The answers might not differ much.

― aimurchie (aimurchie), Friday, 16 February 2007 21:07 (seventeen years ago) link

I've got a show booked at the local Portuguese American Club tomorrow night - a ballyhootennany.
-- Maria :D (mari...), February 16th, 2007.

you're not in new beige, are you?!

― edb (edb), Friday, 16 February 2007 21:12 (seventeen years ago) link

because when i lived there, there wasn't much happenin' at all, but everyone talks about how much "potential" it has ...

― edb (edb), Friday, 16 February 2007 21:15 (seventeen years ago) link

nope, on mvi. but i always assumed new bedford had some kind of scene. Why not there?

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Saturday, 17 February 2007 01:14 (seventeen years ago) link

the answer is........Momus

― bliss (blass), Saturday, 17 February 2007 01:32 (seventeen years ago) link

i second or third the cheapness factor. cheap rents are important if you want to create a scene of more than a couple of people. having said that, living cheaply can also cause stagnation. there is no pressure to produce anything. does that make sense? sometimes having too much time is too much time. pressure can be a good motivator.

― scott seward (121212), Saturday, 17 February 2007 01:40 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah, i keep coming back to the thesis that some adversity is needed for art to have that edge I like.

― Maria :D (Maria :D), Saturday, 17 February 2007 01:58 (seventeen years ago) link

sometimes it's planners who recognize the creative life of the area and want to help the community cultivate it in a formal way, sometimes it's economic development/business improvement district types who want a "downtown" feel and give incentives and encouragement to those types of businesses, sometimes it's lenders willing to give low-interest small-business loans to a bunch of kids with no money and no experience.

― children of mentalists (get bent), Saturday, 17 February 2007 10:59 (seventeen years ago) link

MYSPACE

― teh_kit (g-kit), Saturday, 17 February 2007 15:49 (seventeen years ago) link

What about the availability of loft housing? cf Williamsburg + Providence

― jw (ex machina), Saturday, 17 February 2007 15:53 (seventeen years ago) link

There's a difference between a breeding ground and living/working space. Places like Athens and some big cities don't so much breed artists as attract them.

They're bred somewhere else. And I'd say that what's essential to "breed" an artist is something to struggle against in early life.

It's not quite as bad for performance artists, but for a lot of the solo arts, starting to live in a rich artist community can cause problems. Depends on how long they struggled, I suppose. And whether they built up enough emotional memory of it to keep them going, even if transplanted.

― Hey Jude (Hey Jude), Saturday, 17 February 2007 21:39 (seventeen years ago) link

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