This is the thread for the Fox News "Daily Show for conservatives" thing

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Libertarians are just Republicans in denial.

milo (milo), Thursday, 15 February 2007 06:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Libertarians are what republicans used to pretend to be.
members of the libertarian party is probably just angry white men.
Well, that mentality seems to be prevalent among those whom I think would join.

And what do you man by not have thought things through thoroughly" shadowcat?
I find when people say things like that they mean "accept political parties, if you don't you're wasting your time!" or "The government needs to interfere on behalf of (insert X whiney group who has no right to complain) because they're too lazy to get off their ass and do something other than whine!"
I had this LOONG discussion wih a very leftist woman. it was about the smoking bans.
"but what about the people who don't smoke?"
Who's making them go there?
"Where else will they go?"
A non=smoking restaraunt.
"Those didn't exist."
Hahahaa! Yeah they did. they were all over.
"You probably don't remember, but ost places were either smoking all over or the smoking section was poorly divided."
Yeah, I remember, and whle some places were poorly set up, newer restaraunts were very different.
"circular argument!"
No.
"Why should I have do deal with the smoke?"
You don't. Go somewhere else.
"Why should I have to?"
Because the owner of a private establishment has chosen not to abolish a certain legal activity.
"Where else should I go?"
That loop continued for about 10 minutes.
Eventually I suggested the alternative of getting together and starting a business that didn't have smoking.
"Well that's really hard!"(more or less)
Name a business that's easy and guaranteed, and I'll punch you for being stupid(isn't what I said, but it's what I meant).
"But a non smoking restaraunt would fail!"
Well first, that would show a lack of interest by the public for that kind of restaraunt, and second we're sitting in a restaraunt that's been non-smoking from day one and it's doing just fine.
"but what about the health risks for employees?"
at that point I gave up and didn't say "Who forced them to work there? NO ONE likes to work in food service, so they've probably got jack for skills and shouldn't be picky!"
I did however touch on the idea of PRECEDENT.

SO. if you're calling me an idealist, thank you.
If you just think that the government should be like an overprotective christian parent and watch and guide our every move, try making choices for yourself for a whole month. No book can tell you what to do, you cannot ask for advice. You will make every decision for yourself.
I suggest you do this on vacation.
My guess is you'll either be addicted to freedom or be frightened by choice. In case one, I'll congradulate you, in case two, I pity you.

Geza T iz tha Rainy G. Toronado (The GZeus), Thursday, 15 February 2007 06:37 (seventeen years ago) link

ok can someone walk me through this killfile/ignore user thing?

Rick Gibralter (grady), Thursday, 15 February 2007 06:50 (seventeen years ago) link

u do not need cigs, u need herb

step hen faps (Curt1s Stephens), Thursday, 15 February 2007 06:54 (seventeen years ago) link

gzeus's libertarianism has freed him from the restraints of intelligible speech. and proper line breaks.

max (maxreax), Thursday, 15 February 2007 07:02 (seventeen years ago) link

so i'm guessing none of you are regular ILG participants

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Thursday, 15 February 2007 07:06 (seventeen years ago) link

In ancient rome there was a poem
About a dog who found two bones
He picked at one
He licked the other
He went in circles
He dropped dead

Marmot (marmotwolof), Thursday, 15 February 2007 07:13 (seventeen years ago) link

How well reasoned and thought out you are.
I'm not writing a book and don't feel the need to carefully write out a short story to tell the tale of a 15 minute conversation with a nice jackass. What's the simples way of seperating two different things? Physically. Thus:
Enter Key.

Quickest sign that you have no argument: "lolz your punctuation sucks," which, while not a direct quote is fairly humouous in it's irony.

Oh, and I quit smoking last month, and prefer my brain cells specifically not coated in a waxy, irremovable substance that causes me to be too lazy for the letters Y and O.

and what on earth do you mean by "intelligible speech"?
I'm not DICTATING this so that's utter nonsense. Please take the time to type what you mean, as this is obviously not that.

Geza T iz tha Rainy G. Toronado (The GZeus), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:08 (seventeen years ago) link

try making choices for yourself for a whole month. No book can tell you what to do, you cannot ask for advice. You will make every decision for yourself.

Because clearly a) no-one here has ever had to make decisions for themselves before; and ii) relying on others for advice is a sign of weakness.

ledge (ledge), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Why do libertarians always sound like such pricks?

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:12 (seventeen years ago) link

now now, attack the post not the poster.

ledge (ledge), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:14 (seventeen years ago) link

"Why not allow people to work for a dollar a day, if they want? Nobody's forcing them!"

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:17 (seventeen years ago) link

Parts of that clip are really disturbing.

Dan I. (w1nt3rmut3), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:22 (seventeen years ago) link

"Because clearly a) no-one here has ever had to make decisions for themselves before; and ii) relying on others for advice is a sign of weakness."
Not even close to what I said.
I'm saying that if someone thinks the government should be severely involved in our personal lives and the actions of private parties, then they should take their vacation and make nothing but their own decisions and not even act for advice and just see what it's like. It's an exercise. Most people never do that, or forgot what it's like once they turned 17(as all a healthy 16 year old does is whatever they feel like and also has no long-term memory).
"Why do libertarians always sound like such pricks?"
Because we're sick and tired of the extreme right and left(both the same thing really. fascists and 'communists,' oranges and tangelos) telling us what we can/can't do when it's generally none of their business.
Also, you disagree, and far too many people take offense at that situation.
"You disagree with me and don't want to orally compromise! That's mean!" is something I hear far too often, though it's mostly from college kids.

Geza T iz tha Rainy G. Toronado (The GZeus), Thursday, 15 February 2007 13:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Dude, it's called a PARAGRAPH. Introduce yourself to one before you break your ENTER key.

David RER (Frank Fiore), Thursday, 15 February 2007 13:17 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm not writing a term paper.
Get over yourself.

Geza T iz tha Rainy G. Toronado (The GZeus), Thursday, 15 February 2007 13:24 (seventeen years ago) link

equating writing in paragraphs w/ schoolwork = holy shit

David RER (Frank Fiore), Thursday, 15 February 2007 13:31 (seventeen years ago) link

It's always tough love with the libertarians, isn't it. "Buck up! You wouldn't have lasted a day on the Oregon Trail you buncha softies!"

GZ I'm sick and tired of libertarians telling me that defending and promoting enforcement of labor, health and environmental standards is some kind of delusion we should unshackle ourselves from. Stop telling me what to do. And stop pretending that your standard of living and well-being is somehow unconnected from generations of political and human-rights movements that worked, fought and sacrificed so that you could enjoy the fruits of a society that hasn't yet managed to pollute all its rivers, allow banks and speculators to drive its economy into the ground, and drive all its citizens into an early grave with backbreaking, low-paid work.

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Thursday, 15 February 2007 13:34 (seventeen years ago) link

And I'm the prick...
"pollute all its rivers, allow banks and speculators to drive its economy into the ground, " um...all these things have already happened.
"drive all its citizens into an early grave with backbreaking, low-paid work."
Well, backbreaking is basically less cost efficient than using a machine, and low-paid being the only hoice now and in the future is in part fault of 'trade' with china. ("We put you in debt, thenbuy that debt with the money we made doing it." That doesn't sound like trade).
I wasn't talking about health standards. I was talking about being banned from smoking in a private establishment.
It doesn't make sense for it to be illegal to smoke in a dive bar.
It sets a bad legal precedent.

"Buck up! You wouldn't have lasted a day on the Oregon Trail you buncha softies!" is not even close to anything I've said.
In fact, I have no idea what it could possibly have to do with liitation of personal freedoms.

I'm not 100% against government involvement in things like pollution(dumping, factory emissions, things that affect large areas) or fair labor practices(minimum wage, required to carry workers comp). I have a problem with the erosion of personal freedom.
Telling a business they can't allow their customers to do certain things is insane.
First it's smoking, next it's swearing, then it's questioning your leaders.
That's a 20 year journey, but it's quite possible.

Geza T iz tha Rainy G. Toronado (The GZeus), Thursday, 15 February 2007 13:51 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost
"equating writing in paragraphs w/ schoolwork = holy shit"
At least I used complete sentences most of the time.
Also, look at the post in question.
I'd be writing a shrt story if I was to make that into complete and perfect grammar.
It's a post on a message board. Are you going to critique an occasional run-on sentence in oral conversaion?

Geza T iz tha Rainy G. Toronado (The GZeus), Thursday, 15 February 2007 13:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Is that wal-mart rocks clip actually supposed to be funny?

Norman Phay (Pashmina), Thursday, 15 February 2007 14:05 (seventeen years ago) link

is fairly humouous in it's irony
is fairly humouous in it's irony
is fairly humouous in it's irony
is fairly humouous in it's irony
is fairly humouous in it's irony
is fairly humouous in it's irony
is fairly humouous in it's irony
is fairly humouous in it's irony
is fairly humouous in it's irony
is fairly humouous in it's irony
is fairly humouous in it's irony
is fairly humouous in it's irony

Jaufre Rudel (Jaufre Rudel), Thursday, 15 February 2007 14:12 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm not sure of the intent of that...

Geza T iz tha Rainy G. Toronado (The GZeus), Thursday, 15 February 2007 14:16 (seventeen years ago) link

Arguers also often link the slippery slope fallacy to the straw man fallacy in order to attack the initial position:

1. A has occurred (or will or might occur); therefore
2. B will inevitably happen. (slippery slope)
3. B is wrong; therefore
4. A is wrong. (straw man)

This form of argument often provides evaluative judgments on social change: once an exception is made to some rule, nothing will hold back further, more egregious exceptions to that rule.

Note that these arguments may indeed have validity, but they require some independent justification of the connection between their terms: otherwise the argument (as a logical tool) remains fallacious.

and what (ooo), Thursday, 15 February 2007 14:25 (seventeen years ago) link

It's my fault everyone, I baited the libertarian!

Shadowcat (A-Ron Hubbard), Thursday, 15 February 2007 14:28 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm not 100% against government involvement in things like pollution(dumping, factory emissions, things that affect large areas)

i am shocked - SHOCKED - that you support government interaction in regulating harmful emissions you have nothing to do with, yet oppose it regulating harmful emissions that you personally enjoy

you, sir, are a true patriot

and what (ooo), Thursday, 15 February 2007 14:36 (seventeen years ago) link

hey I don't see this in my tv listings. I don't see any half-hour fox news show.

teeny (teeny), Thursday, 15 February 2007 15:05 (seventeen years ago) link

and in the future is in part fault of 'trade' with china. (

WOW you don't know anything about international economics or the realities of global trade.

METAL ROBOTIC HEAD FACE (scarymonster), Thursday, 15 February 2007 15:18 (seventeen years ago) link

GZeus I have a song for you? Have you heard it??!?!?!?


Some people must have.
Some people have not.
But they'll complain and complain and complain and complain and complain.
Some people will work.
Some simply will not.
But they'll complain and complain and complain and complain and complain.
Like this: It's society's fault I don't have a job.
It's society's fault I am a slob.
I have potential no one can see.
Give me welfare. Let me be me!
Hey, Bud, you're livin' in the Land of the Free.
No one's gonna hand you opportunity!
Some people must have.
Some never will.
But they'll complain and complain and complain and complain and complain.
I don't have a house. I don't have a car.
I spend all my money getting' drunk in a bar.
I wanna be rich. I don't have a brain.
Just give me a handout while I complain.
Or this: I wanna stay in bed and watch TV.
Go out weekends in a limousine
And dance all night takin' lots of drugs
And wake up when I wanna.
Hey, Bud, you're livin' in the Land of the Free.
No one's gonna hand you opportunity!
Some people will learn.
Some never do.
But they'll complain and complain and complain and complain and complain.
Yeah, they'll complain and complain and complain and complain and complain.

jw (ex machina), Thursday, 15 February 2007 15:22 (seventeen years ago) link

I think the GZeus is a Libertarian because he wants to buy Japan-only hentai PS2 games and the modchips to play them from Lik Sang.

jw (ex machina), Thursday, 15 February 2007 15:23 (seventeen years ago) link

Also -- why are most Libertarians male (aynrandorly.jpg)?

jw (ex machina), Thursday, 15 February 2007 15:23 (seventeen years ago) link

"Citizenship is for suckers."

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Thursday, 15 February 2007 15:25 (seventeen years ago) link

jon http://www.incharacter.org/article.php?article=93

and what (ooo), Thursday, 15 February 2007 15:28 (seventeen years ago) link

WTF: Brian Unger is on this thing?!

He's a whore on the level of Mo Rocca, this is not that surprising.

The Many Faces of Gordon Jump (Leon), Thursday, 15 February 2007 15:29 (seventeen years ago) link

thanks for killing thread, defensive libertarian man.

Dethrone the dictaphone, hit it in it's funny bone (kenan), Thursday, 15 February 2007 15:40 (seventeen years ago) link

things that make me sad:

1. that people really believe jimmy fallon brought the roffles over tina fey
2. bhopal
3. smart people wasting their time arguing with the funtionally retarded.

urghonomic (gcannon), Thursday, 15 February 2007 15:50 (seventeen years ago) link

1. that people really believe jimmy fallon brought the roffles over tina fey

SRSLY. The only thing he ever did on that show is giggle and bat his eyes coyly at the camera.

The Many Faces of Gordon Jump (Leon), Thursday, 15 February 2007 15:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Gosh that article pretty much sums it up. I'm considering printing it in pamphlet form.

Shadowcat (A-Ron Hubbard), Thursday, 15 February 2007 15:57 (seventeen years ago) link

guys seriously

1. do not EVER contest anything The GZeus says (cf. IMM, ILG, countless examples)
2. I will teach anybody how to install and run the killfile in firefox ok? I should write up a howto and post it to a thread.

TOMB07 (trm), Thursday, 15 February 2007 16:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I still want Negative Zone capability

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Thursday, 15 February 2007 16:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Ok, I'm not agruing a slippery slope argument. I'm arguing an open door argument.
The anti-smoking legislations(I DON'T SMOKE) open a door that later a lawmaker COULD walk through.
I simply don't want that option there. The 20 year journey was intended to be the minimum time to get there. Honestly sorry I didn't specify that.

"WOW you don't know anything about international economics or the realities of global trade."
So the complete debasement of the manufacturing base in the USA has nothing to do with everything saying "made in china" on it?
I thought people in this thread would be against big busiess CEOs getting richer as they lay off their union workers to put shildren to work.

"I think the GZeus is a Libertarian because he wants to buy Japan-only hentai PS2 games and the modchips to play them from Lik Sang."
Buh?
I don't have a PS2(kinda want one, but only for Katamari) and I was against Sony's actions because they(I believe unlawfully) interfered with free trade.
I don't buy from china if it's reasonably possible, in fact.
H-games are boring as hell, dude. I used to hit keys at random to 'play' one of them yars back before I could read japanese. Once I could read the dialogue I realised that the story I thought it in had was false and it was in fact retarded. (stunted, emotionally and socially, but I won't get into why)
Please excuse this rambling bumbling post but I don't like walking away from misunderstandings or weird slander.

Geza T iz tha Rainy G. Toronado (The GZeus), Thursday, 15 February 2007 16:53 (seventeen years ago) link

oh yeah, and MY BEAUTIFUL THREAD LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE TO DO NOOOOO THEY BE STEALIN' MY BUCKET etc etc etc

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Thursday, 15 February 2007 16:54 (seventeen years ago) link

how do anti-smoking regulations open a door for tyranny in a way that any other regulation dont?

and what (ooo), Thursday, 15 February 2007 16:56 (seventeen years ago) link

other regulations

and what (ooo), Thursday, 15 February 2007 16:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Weird slander is the worst kind of slander there is.

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Thursday, 15 February 2007 16:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Government shouldn't be telling restaurants what to do. Fuckin' health code is a sham. If I want to get poisoned at Chevy's by all rights I should be able to chose to do so.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 15 February 2007 16:59 (seventeen years ago) link

they be stealin' kingfish's bucket. :(

METAL ROBOTIC HEAD FACE (scarymonster), Thursday, 15 February 2007 17:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Can we outlaw the wearing of those stupid Chevy's sombreros by office mates? I normally support the rights of hat-wearers, but we all must have limits.

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Thursday, 15 February 2007 17:01 (seventeen years ago) link

THAT'S AN OPEN DOOR TO FACISM KINGFISH!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 15 February 2007 17:02 (seventeen years ago) link

I know I shouldn't but:

GZeus, do you know that modern anti-smoking legislation - in every municipality and country where it's been adopted - has its foundation and justification in workplace health and safety? The "door" that was left open for this legislation to walk through was won over the last century in a disparate, gruelling set of battles to secure the right of workers to not be driven to an early grave simply because of the place they work.

What kind of door does it open, what kind of PRECEDENT does it set, to say that some lines of work are simply not deserving of workplace health safeguards? Because they are "dives", or unsavoury, or whatever other reason, big or small?

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Thursday, 15 February 2007 17:03 (seventeen years ago) link


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