my country is drowning

Just the other week, I took the dogs out along a seafront path only to find it has collapsed into the sea. All the dogwalkers have made a new path slighly further inland, but that could go in the next big storm too. Sigh.

It's a two-pronged attack - only the Midlands will be safe!

this is miserable.

as well as sad it makes me ANGRY

and so glad i haven't got any kids

bargh why am i torturing myself playing 'the coast is always changing'? i swear i didn't even do it on purpose the first time :/

But I think this is something different.

x-post

I can't remember which one, though. There is this one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Villages-England-Leigh-Driver/dp/1845374231

And there is another book of the same title by Maurice Beresford - I can't find a picture of it to figure out which is the one I have.

Sorry that's not very helpful. I will look tonight when I go home. It is a fascinating book!

I don't agree with the breadheads who want to disprove it just so they can keep on polluting with impunity. But should every single climatological change start getting pinned on human causes?

This is above the top end of the estimated range for sea level change that I've seen. For instance the IPCC report puts total sea level rise this century at between 7 and 23 inches.

I guess that's what gets me, people using science to hit the masses over the head - "Let's use everything we've got!" Dishonest manipulation from environmentalists is as disheartening to me as dishonest manipulation from, say, televangelists.

The numbers of giant SUVs that one sees here, in blue-state Massachusetts, is enough to keep me in a state of permanent blood-boilage.

Haha, no kidding, the Stop n Shop assault vehicles. My wife has had to explain to our 5 year old why Hummers are not cool.

http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/antarctica_getting_ready_heat_up.html

Low ozone levels in the stratosphere and increasing greenhouse gases promote a positive phase of a shifting atmospheric climate pattern in the Southern Hemisphere, called the Southern Annular Mode (SAM). A positive SAM isolates colder air in the Antarctic interior.

Also note that while the interior of Antarctica is coolling, much of the western ice shelf is being eroded and is falling into the sea.

When you posted the words "Apparently Antarctica is getting colder", what were you trying to contribute to the conversation?

"it's probably not as bad as they're making it out to be, so let's do absolutely fuck all." nice.

Yes, that's exactly what I said.

You did say, "I'm liberal in most things but for some reason I'm a global warming cynic."

But you didn't really explain why.

Maybe I'm cynical because of the general shrillness of the discourse - which this has already descended into. Science borne out of dispassionate scepticism has more weight to me than science with an ax to grind. And it seems to me global warming talk is generally accompanied by a preground ax.

My mind's not made up either way. Note I have said nothing to indicate that I support polluting the environment. I've expressed garden variety doubt about global warming. If your response to doubt is BURN THE WITCH then your critical faculties may be impaired.

This exists. A lot of the public debate is as you describe it, but that does not discredit the science.

The proponents of ID make essentially the same argument about evolution, that it is "science with an ax to grind."

Same goes for arguments about racial IQ. Proponents of "The Bell Curve" argue that their opponents are irrational and hyperbolic and that the criticism is not "borne out of dispassionate scepticism", but like evolution and global warming, the science is solid, regardless of the emotional response--the authors of The Bell Curve are wrong, regardless of how red-faced their critics get.

I could get hysterical about theory of gravity, but that wouldn't be a reasonable cause for you to doubt it.

My favourite bulldozed stately home is probably Clumber House.

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/edu/gwdebate/

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

http://www.realclimate.org/

I link to this wiki article only because there are a lot of good links at the bottom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

Here is a list of scientists opposing global warming consensus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_global_warming_consensus

this is such a huge problem - that and that sort of 'well, gee, who minds a bit of global warming if it means we get lovely balmy summers!' stuff. I think that's why people are trying to popularise the term 'climate change' instead - from what I've heard, the forecasts are for more extreme weather and raised global temperature overall, not for the same weather we've always had but a couple of degrees warmer all round. And then it's "what do these scientists know, going on about global warming when we've had the best snowfall in ten years - so much for that, eh" and a growing distrust of science, when the thing to blame isn't the scientists or their science, but the simplistic spin put on scientific discoveries by certain laymen.

WRT to the kerfuffle above, I think there is a distinction between "I am a climate change sceptic" and "I don't believe that climate change is responsible for beach erosion in Wales."

I'm giving Nu-Edward the benefit of the doubt that he meant the latter. However, I don't think it's really rational to cling to the former view after overwhelming evidence.

obviously i was just trying to wind you up into dropping the Science - with attitude. many thanks.

Here is a Welsh village they didn't quite manage to drown.

http://static.laterooms.com/hotelphotos/laterooms/73592/gallery/lake-vyrnwy-classic-hotel-llanwddyn-nr-oswestry_030320091941214173.jpg

Whiney, tied to a bag of menhirs, thrown off this tower, would be too good for him.

(p.s. I may have a substantial amount of single malt Jura whisky in me at this point, so I should probably get off th'internet before getting even stupider.)

Haha, wait, so the whole drowning thing became a meme simply because of ambiguous grammar? Excellent work, guys.

haha no I think in the actual post he is quite explicit about wanting to drown them

no, emily's right.

FT has reached the Jurassic tipsying point?

Drowned villages on the Jurassic Coast in Devon, no less!

http://www.southwestcoastpath.org.uk/img/gammonheadlg.jpg

(I am trying to find the Cornish drowned village in Mounts Bay but it is not happening yet. Stupid whisky.)

This is the Welsh drowned village proper:

http://fantasticjournal.blogspot.com/2009/09/village-of-damned.html

Now I am just being Scilly

http://transitionculture.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/Scilly1.jpg

http://transitionculture.org/2007/08/29/the-rise-and-fall-of-sea-levels-and-civilisations/

that photo is awes

Fotherington Thomas, you are very very annoying and I assure you I mean that literally and with absolutely no subtext

Some day I will get out to the Scillies, they do look amazing.

This one, Ladybower, is an amazing drowned village:

http://kreuzberged.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/ladybower-reservoir-with-the-chruch-spire-visible.jpg

NOT LEAST BECAUSE IT FEATURES THIS AMAZING PLUGHOLE

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/01/75/017566_cc1d9ab2.jpg

^^^^^that is one of the coolest looking things I have ever seen

oh man, someone hates windsurfers more than me

yeah there was a n01se thread with a bunch of those iirc

I think there have been a couple of threads about it because I was never ~allowed~ on N01z3 and I know I had a long conversation with Sinkah about Lyonesse and the lost villages/lands between Cornwall and the Scillies. But it's entirely possible there was a Noise thread as well? There were some p cool threads about ruined Soviet monuments and the like.

what is going on there? (the plughole) - that is amazingly weird!

also - there are way too many threads about whiney and whiney-related memes as it is.

It's an overflow for the Ladybower reservoir - when it's not rlly full, it looks like this:

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/01/36/65/1366582_26ce3a83.jpg

Lost villages >>>>>>>>>>> yet another of the 40,000 dumb whiney beefs

Someone's fucked with the colour balance to make it look even more like the portal to another dimension here:

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/500/LadyBower2.jpg

wales isnt a country

speaking of portals to other dimensions and Wales -- Torchwood is kinda awesomely campy.

I still haven't seen more than the first series of Torchwood but if there were anywhere there were gonna be a portal to another dimension in Britain, it would be Wales or Cornwall. It's odd, I half understand Welsh now that I've been studying Cornish, it's just spelled all silly.

Now I'm gonna have to drag out that Reigns concept album about the lost/drowned village - Styne Vallis - I was *gutted* when I found out it wasn't real.

http://annoyzview.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/the-lost-land-of-lyonesse.jpg

^^^^^^^LYONESSE, also featuring the added bonus of a) sea arch and b) LIGHTHOUSE

Just in case anyone wondered why I spend so much time in Cornwall. Which none of you were, I'm just drunk and want to look at pictures of drowned lands. I should get back to work and finish this damned drawing of St Michaels Mount instead of googling pictures of it.

i think it gets less visually "annoying" as the seasons progress, unfortunately.

there is one whiney related meme that deserves life beyond death beyond life

speaking of which, john barrowman has a very attractive posterior

None of the men on that show are the slightest bit attractive, it's so disappointing. However, Gwen, jaysus ker-ist, she made me doubt my heterosexuality - which I think is all part of Russell T Davies' cunning plan, right? Well, Gwen's gay agenda certainly worked on me, just... wow. I think it was the Welsh accent.

also a doe-eyed, raven-haired big bottom bird just got divorced from one of british light entertainment's most ardent defenders of camp 'newsy wewsies' style music hall vernacular

BORING. Going back to my painting if no one has any more drowned villages or Welsh / Cornish weirdness.

ty

in a semiotics4u vein, i wonder if some of the consternation directed at today's song is cuz zooey d seems to have a lower voice than ljg levitt

Trying to paint this - again with the lighthouses. I could see no less than 2 lighthouses where I was staying. It was lighthouses and rainbows all week long, why on earth did I come back?

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/03/04/030473_91943084.jpg

also - there are way too many threads about whiney and whiney-related memes as it is.

― sarahel, Friday, December 30, 2011 4:10 PM (30 minutes ago) Bookmark

how many of them did you start

that's not a contradiction -- there are too many, yet not enough

Less blah blah blah, more ridiculous paintings of LIGHTHOUSES

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6603092849_df8f0c5770_o.jpg

This is exceptionally lovely and smooth Single Malt, I might add. (Though next time I think I'll try the peated version.) There is apparently now Cornish Whisky (!!!!!!) but it's stupidly expensive.

Super picture! Nice glowering skies and yet the sunshine is not too far off.

Thankee! The weather was so strange when I drew that - there was bright sun in Newlyn, but it was pissing with rain over the Mount, but there were dark clouds blowing overhead from Land's End almost above my head, but the sun was so low it was shining almost perpendicular in the gap between the two storm clouds.

Aaaaaaah, it's just such lovely lovely beautiful light that just does such amazing things I can never adequately express how much I love that country. KERNOW BYS VYKEN etc etc

(I was out on the Northern pier in this kind of bus shelter for boats, rather than on the mainland, which is why it looks like the Mount is in a weird place compared to the actual photo)

I have this poster up on my office wall

http://lemonodor.com/images/clui-immersed-remains-s.jpg

(it's from this exhibition: http://www.clui.org/newsletter/spring-2005/immersed-remains-towns-submerged-america )

What a great exhibition/site! I love the name Neversink for a drowned village, don't care if the etymology is different, it's still wonderful.

There was a submerged town near where my Dad used to live in California, and when we visited, the reservoir was so low that we could see bits of it sticking out and the roads going in, but I can't for the life of me remember where it is. (And my Dad's photography website is so poorly organised that I can never find any photos I'm looking for - jeez, either code some keywords or get one Flickr, Dad.)

There is apparently now Cornish Whisky (!!!!!!) but it's stupidly expensive.

yeah my dad mentioned this at Christmas, also he brought us some Cornish red wine which is like 17% and sort of pleasant but not in a way comparable to a real red wine

Eh, I dunno, Cornish wine is pretty canonical, they were certainly producing wine during the Roman occupation but then again, I think the climate was even milder then. I had drunk Cornish wine, but it was at a restaurant, I recall it being fairly nice, actually.

The idea of introducing (or reintroducing as the case may be- yes, yes, whisky was brought to Cornwall from Ireland by St Piran when he surfed over on a millstone, introducing both Catholicism and surfing to the counry at the same time) Dowr Toemm into Cornwall just strikes me as a supremely bad idea because the Cornish after Methodism made them give up drinking = inventing steam engines, amazing mine technology, building fantastical feats of engineering, sticking Wheals atop impossible chasms, etc. etc. while the Cornish plus Whisky = fish fights and brawling with the English.

But that's going to degenerate into another argument about ~racist stereotypes of "The Celts"~ with Tom D and Darraghmac.

Anyway, Cornish ZOIDER and Cornish mead is where it's at in terms of Cornish bouze gourmandising. Also ridiculous Skinners Ales of which I have never had a bad one.

None of this has anything to do with drowned villages but the unique combination of BOUZE and racist stereotypes of the British Isles is always a popular diversion on ILX. I should just give up and make an "I miss Cornwall so badly" thread and be done with it.

also he brought us some Cornish red wine which is like 17% and sort of pleasant but not in a way comparable to a real red wine

― Extreme Lifestyle, Saturday, December 31, 2011 11:33 AM (5 hours ago)

if it's over ~15.5% then it's fortified like port or madeira etc

good point - was labelled as a red wine tho so *shrug*

I am drinking a http://www.onlinebeerfestival.co.uk/acatalog/cornish_knocker.jpg atm, it is pretty decent and upholds their grand tradition of stupid labels for clowning aesthetes

Aye, that one is good indeed, but if you can find a http://www.skinnersbrewery.com/uploaded_images/ginger_tosser_clip.png <-- that is absolutely my favourite of them, bcuz I love a honeyed ale.