E-Readers (Kindle, Nook, using iPad for reading) yay or nay

i wouldn't object to using an e-reader but i'm not about to drop £££££ on one and neither is anyone likely to buy me a present any time soon

books are easier - nope
more convenient - nope
cheaper - it depends

Index or Table of Contents look up are much easier in a physical book.
Don't see why cheaper is always better, either.

e-readers have their flaws but i was picking at lex because he doesn't really seem to know that much about them. they aren't unwieldy (the newest ones are lighter and smaller than most paperbacks), they aren't particularly expensive, and the attractions to the consumer are pretty clear (being able to carry around a huge library of books, near-instant downloads of new books, including free access to pretty much any public domain text)

also looking at an e-ink screen is not the same as looking at a computer screen

if i find myself on a bus or train or in a room with some time to kill, and maybe i'm not sitting comfortably or whatever, it is obviously easier to pull out a paperback and then shove it back in my bag or pocket if i need to move on quickly, then to pull out and switch on a whole fucking machine that definitely won't be as easy to shove away afterwards

Books don't die when you get them wet, either.

why would i want to carry around a library of books? i want to OWN a library of books but i read one at a time

haw i heard the e-reader technology has failed to ensure that file-sharing of books can't take place. whoops there goes the publishing industry

the kindle on the amazon front page is £89, in what world is that "not particularly expensive"?

also looking at an e-ink screen is not the same as looking at a computer screen

people say this but given how much of my work and leisure time involves looking at a computer screen i do value the time i have not having to look at any kind of electronic device

Pulling out, switching on, and putting away my e-reader no more difficult than a book. I just slip it in a pocket like I would a paperback. Plus I don't have to leaf through to whatever page I was on, and it's easier to read one-handed on the tube.

ok lex you shouldn't get an e-reader

is anybody gonna talk about the resource cost of e-readers vs. books

e-readers are way more convenient than regular books on public transportation, you can hold it and turn pages with just one hand!

That's basically the best reason for getting one.

ie: an object composed of toxic chemicals that will be obsolete within several years vs. object composed of renewable resource that will last forever

xp

voted I own an e-reader and split my reading between that and regular books

xps

E ink is a world different from any backlit screen. I get overstimulated really easily and have to put away my computer, but E ink isn't any harder on my eyes than regular paper. When I 1st got my e-reader (nook) I wasn't sure if I would use it much, but it turns out that I use it constantly. I have a cover which makes mine really easy to read hands-free. I just have to tap it to turn the page.

My brother-in-law bought the new Kindle for my sister for Christmas, but loved it so much that he kept it for himself and ordered another for her. The newest Kindle (E ink) looks fantastic.

the environmental impact question of books vs. e-readers has not been settled; there are a lot of complicated factors involved
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/12/01/HOCR1M0J6B.DTL

I've owned a nook color for a year now. I love it and use it almost every day. I read books, subscribe to magazines, use some of the apps.

But! My wife just bought a Samsung Galaxy. MANY of the apps that I use on my nook - and have paid B&N money for - are apparently available free to her through whatever Samsung's interface is. Additionally, there are definitely a wider variety of apps available.

I own an e-reader (kindle) and it is awesome but still split my reading between that and regular books

And of course, because it represents one of the most proven models of "reuse" around, the greenest option of all is still your local public library.

^^^pretty conclusive to me

GHG emissions are just part of the picture. cuz the other problem with devices like e-books isn't the amount of CO2 emitted in their manufacture, it's the toxic elements involved

personally I read a lot (def more than 22 books per year) but everything I read is either used or from the library. I think the only new books I've bought are comic books.

including loads of stuff that (surprise) is not available for e-readers

iPad, some reading but not the majority yet. I've bought e-editions of the 2nd Alex Ross book and the ESPN oral history, gotten a bunch of older free stuff in the public domain, and *cough* discovered some science fiction and Faulkner here and there on the web.

if i find myself on a bus or train or in a room with some time to kill, and maybe i'm not sitting comfortably or whatever, it is obviously easier to pull out a paperback and then shove it back in my bag or pocket if i need to move on quickly, then to pull out and switch on a whole fucking machine that definitely won't be as easy to shove away afterwards

You really have no clue what an e-reader is, do you? Also, no interest in learning; only decrying (cf. Cooking) .

I love my Nook mostly because I don't have a lot of storage space in my house for print books and it is very portable -- I can throw it in my purse and have lots of books available to read.

The reason I favor the Nook over the Kindle is that Amazon has not been crazy about Kindle users using Overdrive so that they can borrow ebooks from libraries or to share books. I'm not trying to sound like a Nook commercial, I'm sure that's probably true of the iPad or other ereaders that aren't the Kindle.

No it's cool, Amazon really are a bunch of assholes.

You really have no clue what an e-reader is, do you? Also, no interest in learning; only decrying (cf. Cooking) .

wtf? fuck you, seriously

i'm sure amazon are assholes but kindles are compatible with overdrive now

i have seen e-readers, both other people using them and ones belonging to friends of mine. they don't look anywhere near as easy to handle as a book.

as for cooking i tried for ten fucking years.

Yet you still have enormous misconceptions about them that you insist on defending despite hearing evidence that contradicts them.

did you even read my post?

Bickering aside, what do advocates of e-readers have to say about their effect on the availability of books, etc. to those who can't afford the readers, or otherwise don't have access to them?

I own an e-reader but I think it's mostly dud/still mainly read regular books

I own an e-reader and it's pretty classic but I still mainly read regular books.

Was sort of considering buying my mother one for Christmas but she is not super comfortable with computers (she is fairly competent at various Office tasks but will complain about how illogical they are all the way) and I think she is kind of attached to the idea of paper books

(also e-books are super expensive unless you are adept at finding real ebook links among download scam sites, which is totally not a route I want to have to coach my mother to go down - the Amazon ebook price is rarely more than a couple of pounds cheaper than the paperback price, and I don't see my mother wanting to pay that for something "virtual" which she'll be scared she'll delete by accident, or which Amazon have the right to take away from you again without warning)

case spudette's mother is the person in this thread i feel i have most in common with (and all her concerns otm!)

i'm with lex on this one

also it's kind of annoying posting in a thread with actual reasons that haven't been disproven and being shouted down just b/c i'm not on-message technologically - how do you people cope with the vast majority of people who are even less comfortable using new technology than i am?

Your positions have been rationally countered. You had no rebuttal except to restate your original positions.

how do you people cope with the vast majority of people who are even less comfortable using new technology than i am?

laughing and pointing, mainly

"nope", "nope", "nope" ≠ rational countering

c'mon lex they told you you were wrong, what more could you want

kindle for majority

Easy, cheaper, instant access to books

Lighter and more portable than one paperback

Free books

easier to read in bed/bath too

E ink screen does not strain eyes/cause headaches like backlit screen can

Basic models are very simple to use. I recently got my 1st cell phone ever, a very basic one, and it was more complicated than my e-reader.

Lex: n/a, ledge, julia, silverfish and others have presented benefits that counter your detractions. There are on 54 posts itt atm so they should be pretty easy to find... Or Are you trying to rea this thread using a paperback format?

fake sandbox lex

ie: an object composed of toxic chemicals that will be obsolete within several years vs. object composed of renewable resource that will last forever

― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, December 15, 2011 1:16 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Permalink

this kinda analysis is actually very difficult to do cause "someone buys a paperback" involves more emissions than just cutting down some trees, you also have the emissions from a. transit of object b. brick+mortar store c. transit of human being to buy object. then if you really want to drive this to the ground you can say 'well what else would people be doing with that bookstore location, what happens to the money we'll save/spend w/ ebooks, etc. also w/ the way the economy works right now, isn't any new economic activity basically bad for the environment somewhere down the line? a: yeah...' even 'just go to the library' is like, fine, okay that works on an individual level, but libraries w/ physical books depend on a system where lots of people publish and buy physical copies of books.

you also have to consider that people are buying tablet type computers *regardless* of how much they read, so it's not really and either/or decision w/ paper books. using myself as an example I might buy a tablet *instead* of buying a new laptop and eventually tablet-devices will probably do everything our laptops do so reading a book on them won't be any 'worse for the environment' than reading ilx.

in conclusion there are better things to worry bout.

I read pirated ebooks on my iPad, like I downloaded every Discworld novel recently. l1br4ry.nu is hit-or-miss for textbooky things. I bought a few indie tabletop roleplaying games as PDFs that I read on the iPad.

Basically I might pay $3 but not $10 for an ebook of what would be a backlist mass-market paperback and I don't really want to buy a physical backlist mass-market paperback. Humongous postmodern novels, physical all the way.

I say, "get that e-reader offa my lawn, you punks!"

iatee otm. Just think of the carbon footprint of this baby
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/WilliamCrump63/libraryken.jpg

What books have going for them is that, when they are well-designed, they represent the culmination of many centuries of design iterations and refinements. otoh, only some books are designed with that level of care and knowledge. Cost factors almost always rule the book design process, so in a typical year you get a ton of shitty airport-bookrack mass paperbacks, a plethora of mid-range coffee table books, a smattering of oddly sized and self-concious "look at me" designs, plus a few well-printed literary books that make good use of quality paper, binding, typeface and typesetting.

Hearing about how people like to run their fingers through pages is gross.

― moonbop, Sunday, December 25, 2011 11:11 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Permalink

haha

this all just seems to be an extra expense. you can pick up cheap paperbacks, secondhand books everywhere. ridiculously cheap on like abebooks for example. i bought the new biographical dictionary of film for £2 secondhand hardback including delivery but its closer to £20 as an ebook. it just seems like you would need to be reading A LOT for these to make any sense economically. especially when books do not come super cheap. i mean w/ mp3 its like yes well you always need some sort of player for audio or video but with books you never needed like an extra thing (unless you count like "light" and reading glasses)

i mean there are obviously pros and cons. i think talking about these things not having souls is kindof unhelpful. just think how nostalgic people will be for these rudimentary gizmos in a few decades.

Xp you know there's a whole load of legit free out-of-copyright ebooks out there.

oh yeah i'm sure. its kindof stupid to posit this as a straight binary but like what if you're really into sci-fi and you can just constantly pick up a barrage of cheap paperbacks. kindle requires this upfront investment that other reading doesnt and if the books are not super cheap its not like you make that money back. i just assumed ebooks were gonna be super cheap when i first heard of them. it was a surprise to me that they were gonna be priced as though they were, like, books.

i mean people who want one should buy one. i just keep thinking of this guy i know who bought one and then spent about a month reading some lame indie magazine off it and he kept talking about how it was free but i was like really you have to divide the price of the machine across the number of books you read on it and people who don't really actually read that much are paying proportionally higher. like i get that if you are planning on reading a lot of 19th century literature it might make sense and its a fun gadget but like

Speaking of sci-fi, the sf gateway seems to be about as cheap as buying the used paperback for those old out-of-print classics.

That lame indie reader's analysis reminds me of this discussion:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-sdjDJt4b2h7b4/the_lonely_guy_1984_talk_about_hair/

Have y'll been fronting on not seeing this BBC documentary on this very subject? It's kinda rambly but really quite interesting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01871m9/hd/Imagine_Winter_2011_Books_The_Last_Chapter/

I'd watch it if it was available in my country.

I use the US version of this software to watch US TV stuff despite being in the UK. Only turn it on when you're actually watching something cos browsing with it on is supremely annoying, but it's good for what it does.

http://download.cnet.com/Expat-Shield/3000-2092_4-75211377.html

That's a slick little thing. Sadly, I'm on a Mac.

the states are a different country, and you can never BookMac

lol @ "switch on a whole fucking machine" - like that's harder these days than "open a whole fucking book at the last page I was reading"

― mortified of ILX (onimo)

So I got a kindle and it turns out that, as I thought, you press one (1) button and the whole fucking machine starts up at the last page you were reading in less than 2 (two) seconds.

I've read one and a bit ebooks since Christmas and it feels like... reading. I don't feel I'm really missing any tactile or sensual experience, but then I usually read cheap/used paperbacks.

I agree with some of the concerns upthread about spacing/justification but it hasn't bothered me too much - I'm used to seeing a similar thing in newspapers.

"switch on a whole fucking machine"

Indeed. There are thousands of circuits and valves and tubes. How can the average man be expected to learn how to make them work?

/trying to switch on a dead horse

quick question as i've just got one of them machines. i have a couple of books in rtf format that i need to convert to epub. so i downloaded calibre. is there anything to set up in the options before converting to a new format or do i just click on convert and hope for the best?

forget if i've already posted this but while ebook prices are usually too high to make any sense (on amazon they are often higher than the price of the physical book), plug project gutenberg into one of these and the world changes.

Given my penchant for used books and hole-and-corner odd books, I would not consider an ebook reader at all, if it weren't for free book sources like Project Gutenberg and the growing number of ebooks at the public library.

Though I've seen some books on Amazon where the Kindle and physical prices were the same, I don't think I've run across any where the Kindle version was more than the physical book. Being able to rent a textbook on the Kindle for a class I was taking (~$24 for 6 months) vs. buying the physical book (for ~$180) was interesting.

Holy crap, that's a game changer. I am going to be back in school pretty soon and I hope like hell I can rent my textbooks!

"often" was probably untrue because it's not like i've done a survey but it's happened to me more than once! most recently here vs here and here vs here.

textbook rental is a beautiful thing yeah.

I had no idea that was possible. And I've only been out of the textbook market for less than a year.

i have two copies of 'postwar' if you want one

i ended up making it part of my annual book-raid on my parents' house (along with two volumes of robert a. caro's a song of ice and johnson; the plane home was the first time in my life i've struggled w/ the overhead bins). much thx tho!

(did you like postwar?)

yes v much so

me too.

wait there's textbook rental??? swoon

Amazon UK is doing a '12 days of kindle' with lots of good, cheap (99p) titles: http://www.amazon.co.uk/b?ie=UTF8&node=1503253031
I looked to see if Amazon.com is doing the same but it seems not - I could only find a list of '$3.99 or below' titles that all looked shit.

You can rent physical text books, too - http://www.bookrenter.com/

I've rented text books. I've also sold text books I've found in dumpsters. Protip for all the hobos out there, untapped market.

I just want a cheap source of 60's scifi stuff. Tho, this format seems to work with all the classic short-story collections put out back then.

i picked up the entire wheel of time series for free, that was pretty economical imo

jibe i had to convert those, fwiw- i used an online converter but can't remember what it was called so i'm not actually any use to you but there you go

me too.

have you read 'ill fares the land'? i cant recommend it highly enough tbh

ha thanks darragh. i'll see how those books come out without any settings modified.

thanks to the democratization of publishing my friend who is way better at writing lots and lots of words than he is at writing good ones now has a bunch of ebooks in the kindle store. I don't recommend spending yr money.

unless you want to read his self-insert fantasies about managing a rock band or being a computer hacker and dating large-breasted women

have you read 'ill fares the land'? i cant recommend it highly enough tbh

― є(٥_ ٥)э, Thursday, December 29, 2011 6:16 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Permalink

yeah i read this in like two hours and immediately donated my copy to the occupy portland library; as a (very personal and rightly so) manifesto against The Problem it's sterling.