J.R. Smith has literally been shanghaied away for the foreshortened 2011-2012 NBA season: rolling ILH sandbox thread

They got a better deal and you were confident they would.

but I didn't say they would never get a better deal, just that this was a good deal and vetoing it was ultra fishy.

honestly I think the trade was mediocre for all 3 teams... but that's kinda how trades work.

imho in a competitive context such as this one, the mere existence of a better deal, and particularly the speed at which is was found, proves that the other deal was not a good one - like you can be all i paid a hundred and fifty dollars for this dvd player that is a good value, but if its selling for a hundred dollars everywhere else then its not a good deal, also just as far as basketball assets exchanged it was not equitable imo

i do think the veto was fishy, but like ive said it all stems from the fact that the nba owns a team which is just completely insane and really twists the whole concept of the league as a disinterested arbiter, im much happier w/the way things turned out, it wouldve been ridiculous for paul to be traded for a bag of donuts, particularly by a team owned by the league, which just obvs shows what a jackpot stern was in once the original trade was announced

honestly I think the trade was mediocre for all 3 teams... but that's kinda how trades work.

― Matt Armstrong, Thursday, December 15, 2011 1:27 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

naw the rockets made out like bandits, they must be hating life right now

adande said this btw

"Gordon struggled to defend big guards such as Bryant and Joe Johnson, and even Paul, a good defender, wouldn't be much help there. Now the Clippers can utilize the newly acquired Chauncey Billups, who's also 6-3 but much stronger than Gordon."

chauncey billups: lockdown 2 guard.

Jordan, Dumars, Bowen, Billups.

naw the rockets made out like bandits, they must be hating life right now

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Thursday, December 15, 2011 12:33 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

I just don't see going all in on Pau here. I think they would have remained mediocre.

Pau could rebound I guess but the end of that season was terrifying.

chauncey billups: lockdown 2 guard.

― Matt Armstrong, Thursday, December 15, 2011 1:48 AM (6 minutes ago)

billups is a solid defender against the 2, has lost a step and gets burned by quick points but yeah can guard the 2 ok

ugh why won't the trade machine upgrade

i do think the veto was fishy, but like ive said it all stems from the fact that the nba owns a team which is just completely insane and really twists the whole concept of the league as a disinterested arbiter, im much happier w/the way things turned out, it wouldve been ridiculous for paul to be traded for a bag of donuts, particularly by a team owned by the league, which just obvs shows what a jackpot stern was in once the original trade was announced

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Thursday, December 15, 2011 12:33 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

I don't see the problem. The majority of the media thought it was an ok to good trade for the Hornets. A significant portion of the media thought it was very bad for LA. What's the problem? The problem was a few owners got super butthurt because they happened to think LA was pulling off another Pau deal. Even if the Hornets got totally fucked on the deal, everyone would just blame Demps. Who cares? Is the franchise sale value of the hornets really going to be affected that much? It would probably be negated in overall revenue from keeping the Lakers in the elite.

Stern showed really weak leadership and got bullied by a bunch of hot headed children.

Like you may think the trade was "ridiculous," but I don't think that's how it would have played in the short term. The media liked the deal for NOH!

its true they did, im sort of baffled as to why, other than like paul has been underrated his whole career, even then tho

because you hate Martin more than just about anyone man

hes just not notably good at basketball!

bee tee dubs
if the minnesota pick ended up being 8th or later, I would still prefer the original deal, because I think Gordon is overrated.

we're talking about a 45-36 shooter with an injury history here

I think the writers, like me, are noting that the Hornets would be adding 3 immediate starters at positions of need, all of whom are above average playres.

well obvs theres a lot of variables, but at least theres a chance of a future instead of some guys who you know exactly what youre getting and its nowhere near as good as chris paul - you cant really say of the pick is 8th or worse then i dont like it, what you traded for was a probability not a certainty, its perfectly common to make the right play and for it to not turn out, the future is not certain

yeah but the variability is why I don't think this deal is way better. Just better.

i mean having three p good starters what does it get you, thats what was killing me abt all the analysis is there was just no strategic thinking going on what so ever, hey you got a few good starters, oh where does that get you in three years *shrugs*

tankapaloozas are fine but there's something to be said for winning 50 games and not having the franchise fold.

It gets you... 3 solid starters to build around. Draft a good pg and you're going somewhere.

honestly the more I think about it... I like the Melo deal way more.

well melo is a worse player, and the players sent back were younger

they got more pieces, this deal is basically just gordon and a pick.

also trading unprotected firsts far in the future is just total amateur hour

It gets you... 3 solid starters to build around. Draft a good pg and you're going somewhere.

― Matt Armstrong, Thursday, December 15, 2011 2:18 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

its really hard to build around quality starters in the nba, you can only really build around stars, sometimes you can trade those starters for stars, but due to the particularities of the draft and the salary cap its nearly impossible to add a star to solid starters, which is why teams want young players and draft picks back for stars, theyre trying to get another star

they got more pieces, this deal is basically just gordon and a pick.

― Matt Armstrong, Thursday, December 15, 2011 2:21 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

yeah but gordon both gordon and the pick have a higher ceiling than anyone the nuggs got

I don't see it with gordon man...

why does he have a higher ceiling than danilo?

gordon just hasn't gotten better.

he's been the same 45% shooting, undersized 2. He's a nice player but Danilo is a nice player too.

danilo has done literally nothing but shoot threes in the nba, gordon is like an actual basketball player, likely neither of them are remembered for long, but such is life in this crazy league we call the nba

naw dude, danilo is really good at drawing fouls.

plus he's not a 6'3 shooting guard.

and fwiw gordons ts% is actually pretty good cause of how much he gets to the line

coincidentally... kevin martin is also good at drawing fouls...

kevin martin is a GREAT scorer, i have conceded this, its just all the other things

anyway im going to bed, interesting day in the nba, to be continued

and fwiw gordons ts% is actually pretty good cause of how much he gets to the line

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Thursday, December 15, 2011 1:31 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

Danilo makes more FTs per game than Gordon.

and has a better TS%...

3.6 to 4.1 in favor of gordon, theyve both been in the league 3 years - obvs theres minutes, pace, usage and all that to adjust for, but technically, no

now srsly im going to bed

and i never said galinari didnt have a better ts%, just that he was one dimensional, idk maybe hell be good, certainly not a guy who jumped out at you watched him as someone who was a v well rounded or with it player, also always been totally a complimentary player, never had any defense focus on him, cant defend at all etc

you said he just shot threes, yet he takes a ton of FTs

No Referrer (can't tell)

and i never said galinari didnt have a better ts%, just that he was one dimensional, idk maybe hell be good, certainly not a guy who jumped out at you watched him as someone who was a v well rounded or with it player, also always been totally a complimentary player, never had any defense focus on him, cant defend at all etc

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Thursday, December 15, 2011 1:42 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Permalink

His defense is fine. The Gallinari being a bad defender thing is so 2009.

3.6 to 4.1 in favor of gordon, theyve both been in the league 3 years - obvs theres minutes, pace, usage and all that to adjust for, but technically, no

now srsly im going to bed

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Thursday, December 15, 2011 1:40 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

Gallo shot more last year. Really unfair to count Gallo's first year when he was struggling with a back injury and coming off the bench.