Sandbox Romants: Wooing and Problems

maybe i wasnt but i was judging u anyway

I am very mean & judgemental tbf

I don't think there is much gray in the cheating dept: did you sleep with someone else? Did you have an agreement with your partner to be monogamous? If you answer yes to both those questions, then you cheated, you betrayed your partner. All the context in the world won't change those facts, including but not limited to: I was drunk; we were going through a rough patch, we were ” practically” broken up, we ” eventually” broke up anyway, my partner is a terrible person, my partner doesn't treat me right.

I might feel more compassion for the cheater in some contexts over others, but probably only if the cheater is my friend.

I wasn't really talking about that in particular tbh and wouldn't necessarily agree with what you said there either.

lol I meant disagree, not agree

goddamn it e stand yr ground and FIGHT US

I don't want to fight! You didn't say anything diff than what I said, really. I guess I just like to look at the big picture and realize that people are imperfect and sometimes do shitty things and while that sucks it doesn't necessarily make them a bad person.

I'm too tired to fight anyway and I've got dinner to make.

But I guess if the person on the receiving end of the shitty behavior is a friend it's often hard to do that esp if you don't know the other person at all.

Emotions/relationships are hard and people are complicated. I get pretty annoyed when people draw hard lines in issues of romance/partnerships about things that are really subjective, complicated, and relationship-specific. For the record, I am not excusing her or anyone's actions nor am I saying ZS doesn't have a right to be angry about this. It just irks me how quick ppl are to pass p harsh and swift judgement on ppl even when I realize that they're probably doing so to be supportive of their friend.

this is otm
I kinda think this tendency is exemplified at its apex, can run wild, when these conversations happen online?, also; like a few of the things about it - how limited the information you're getting is, that it comes in one voice, that it's something you receive alone, that you don't even have, really, vicarious access to the antagonist's POV, etc - I can understand why it leaves so little room for rebuttal, or leads so clearly to one point of view, how dare they, or w/e. & that isn't bad, because I think the thing it elicits is maybe "I feel for you for feeling that way about it", & so we're sympathetic. but I get discomforted by the idea that anyone involved would feel they had a clear picture & felt confident about what had happened. relationships are the actual most complicated thing I think, I p much can't talk about them irl because I think you need ten thousand hours of conversation about the macro level dynamics involved before you can even get a sense of where anyone was coming from. in relationships you talk to someone for hours at night w/the lights off; trying to relay things that have happened w/soneone you were so profoundly entwined w/ can't easily be done w/others imo.

but also yeah i don't think you're disagreeing, & none of this precludes the kinda broadbrush "someone cheated on you" "that's p bad" exchanges itt

Thanks Schlump. That was v well put imo.

think whatever the corrected version of yr:

I wasn't really talking about that in particular tbh and wouldn't necessarily agree with what you said there either.

post was otm, also, it being something i eventually kinda understood at least the complexity of, having previously been p binary about it all. that there's context doesn't diminish someone def having done wrong, or doesn't necessarily edge anything closer to being more inevitable or more forgiveable, etc, it just sometimes is a thing that helps you understand why someone did the thing they shouldn't have

ehh, I'm gonna take a page from Mr. DJP's book and just flat out say that I genuinely believe a lot of (most of) people are actually a bonkers level of crazy and barely holding their shit together. maybe it's only by living with people for an extended period of time that you get to see the cracks well enough to know of the slobbering horror lying beneath, and also reveal your own seeping pits-of-hell insanity to somebody else. and once that revelation has happened, or happens in a hazy, smouldering always at the periphery of your vision way – once you've seen + revealed the skinless, raw, and pitiful aspects of all the parties in your own relationship - only then can you determine how well the standard rules of engagement w/r/t relationships apply to you.

Both otm imo.

but... but... but I want life to be simple

Yeah well then, you're fuck. Sorry, man.

I don't think there is much gray in the cheating dept: did you sleep with someone else?

i would say this is pretty gray indeed!

what if you kissed someone else, what if you harbored lustful thoughts in your heart, etc. that line is going to be different for ppl in different relationships.

naaaaaaaaaah

^

I'm stranding betwween a v young lady and a much older man, q who derm to know each other by sight only. Guy just introduced himself a nd it's proceeding to hit on her

Standing
although I do feel stranded

Exhibit #1:

http://willblogforfood.typepad.com/will_blog_for_food/images/lewinskydress.jpg

mookie otm

lol - where is this happening, Justine?

wtf is that, R?

i mean the line might change but rarely that much and the fact of an event is a fairly definable boundary

Oh on the train!

I mean he's kinda handsome but clearly sleazy

She had a test -organic chem - to get to so she declined his offer to get a coffee

I don't think I could ever approach a complete stranger and hit on her

that is the infamous blue dress that monica lewinsky wore when she was not having sexual relations w. billy

that's a good look for some dudes tbf

The definition of "cheating" might be reasonably clear, but the consequences or how diff ppl deal with it is completely all over the map. Some ppl will go "thats it no excuses, no 2nd gos, fuck u". Some forgive, work thru it. Some, if itwas just a kiss might even laugh it off.

I don't think I could ever approach a complete stranger and hit on her

― The Love Song of L. Alfred Sotosyn (dayo), Thursday, December 8, 2011 12:34 AM (1 minute ago)

This is true, and something I always end up wondering about w/ the "men are conditioned to do this..." thing I read about on some other threads. When I was single, the primary fear of approaching somebody I found interesting/attractive, and a secondary (but no less potent) fear of coming across as creepy or douchey or domineering made it practically impossible to meet potential dates unless they were friend-circled first.

yep

When I was about 22 a guy asked me for a light and then after a few minutes of chit chat he asked if I wanted to go see his friend's band. I had recently resolved to be more spontaneous so I went. We had fun and wound up kissing goodnight at the train station. The next day I found out he was still in HS. I was p horrified but respected the hell out of his courage tbh.

drunk is difft!

Just thinking about the sort of nerve it must take to ask a total stranger out like that dude on the train or my HS boyfriend of one night. lol.

Oh that guy wasn't drunk. It was like 4 in the afternoon and we were on a street corner when we met.

remy otm - the second factor not wanting to come across as creepy or douchey is a strong influence

statutory makeout xps

you're arrested...for the crime of being fine

I feel like maybe the best way to meet new girls at this point in my life is to buy a leather jacket and wayfarers and stand on a street corner and smoke

hmm

he told all his friends he kissed a grownup imo

lol tbf he was 18 and not 15 or something

We were friends after that for a couple years but in a sibling sorta way. He did say that my studio apartment was so "adult punk rock". Oh Alex.

wow this thread blew up.

ZS if you haven't had it already i think you are due for a massive bender that involves smashing beer bottles at some point (preferably against some rocks/not on people). you deserve to be angrier!

(i always offer to go down to the docks and chuck rocks into the water with heartbroken friends. that helps too and is slightly less destructive.)

awwww

throw beer bottles at sailors, win win

i don't think it'll ever be in me to have a rigid morality of relationships, not that i'm criticising you guys that do but it's been a unpredictable sea of grey to me for most of my adult life

i don't think it'll ever be in me to have a rigid morality of relationships

not in a global sense, sure, but I think it's vitally important w/in your actual relationship to know what, for you (& partner(s)) is absolutely okay and absolutely not

not universal rules, tbh, just on a relationship by relationship basis ito 'here's how this'll work for us' iykwim