Sandbox Romants: Wooing and Problems

When you're with someone for as long as ZS and she were it's not always that black & white, or at least it doesn't always seem like it is.

In other words, having that attitude is often easier said than done at least ime.

Fair enough. I still think that after you dump someone, opining on their love life is probably not terribly wise.

yeah. i mean, i think part of the reason i didn't mention the cheating and all of that is i was still slightly in shock and denial. also, during the breakup night she seemed eager for me to agree that this was "mutual". and she sort of had a point - we had problems going back years that were seemingly unresolveable (not a word), and it's true that there were times in the months leading up to it where i had contemplated breaking up myself (though not cheating of course). so yes, i agreed that it was a mutual thing and because of that i kind of pushed the incident out of mind, water under the bridge and all of that.

the worst, though, was when she accused me of dating some girl and lying about it (this was the facebook image incident where i was in the background of a photo with an attractive girl and it ended up getting published in various places and she saw it), and refused to believe that i never dated the girl or kissed her or anything. in fact, i'm not sure that girl is into men or women or people in general, in terms of romants. but anyway, she refused to believe me, and instead left me a scathing series of text messages along the lines of "this is how you get me back, you fucker? you had to get even so you had to go out and etc etc etc"

Hmmm. OK, that's p nuts sounding.

and it's like, YOU CHEATED ON ME AND DUMPED ME, FOR REAL. I WAS IN A PHOTO WITH A PRETTY GIRL 2 WEEKS LATER AND THAT'S IT. WE ARE NOT IN A COMPETITION, BUT IF WE WERE, WE WOULD NOT BE EVEN.

True.

That sounds legitimately unhinged!

also, (last thing i'll say on this, promise) in searching for an ancient Skype password the other day in gmail, i accidentally ran into a string of emails from 3 years ago where she accused me of cheating on her while I was in India and Thailand for a 3-week trip for a class I was taking. totally false, of course, but it was so ironic to read through these dense paragraphs of accusations from the past knowing the end of the story.

she "refused to believe" you because she feels guilty (as well she should) and would like desperately for things to be "even" responsibility-wise

eff that noise tho

Is your ex prone to projection?

sounds like she has self-esteem issues. i'm reticent to accuse people of being "un-hinged" or "crazy" when they act like that in regards to an ex- or a current partner. i think it's contextual -- unhealthy relationships make people crazy. i don't think they are inherently crazy.

everyone is, surely!

</projection> xp

she "refused to believe" you because she feels guilty (as well she should) and would like desperately for things to be "even" responsibility-wise

yeah, i was talking to a friend as the angry text messages were rolling in, and he basically made the same case. convincingly.

Is your ex prone to projection?

that's a good question. i had never really noticed it in her before. this was kind of an extreme situation, emotionally, for both of us. it think it drew things out of her that weren't normally evident.

Sarahel otm. I specifically said "nuts" instead of "crazy" even though it's the same thing because of that reason. I'm pretty sure most have us have done things that could be considered "crazy" because of a relationship at one point or another. Emotions/relationships are hard and people are complicated. I get pretty annoyed when people draw hard lines in issues of romance/partnerships about things that are really subjective, complicated, and relationship-specific. For the record, I am not excusing her or anyone's actions nor am I saying ZS doesn't have a right to be angry about this. It just irks me how quick ppl are to pass p harsh and swift judgement on ppl even when I realize that they're probably doing so to be supportive of their friend.

I also realize "nuts" isn't any better but I couldn't think of any other word in that moment and it seemed a better choice than "crazy" somehow.

quick ppl are to pass p harsh and swift judgement on ppl

If anything I am projecting, myself.

cashews

It just irks me how quick ppl are to pass p harsh and swift judgement on ppl even when I realize that they're probably doing so to be supportive of their friend.

totally - and i feel like the key thing to focus on is the motivation for the judgment - that people are trying to be supportive.

Oh M, I didn't mean you! I was just meant generally speaking and was mostly thinking out loud. I should have just said OTM and left it at that.

No - I think you elaborated really well!

how quick ppl are to pass p harsh and swift judgement on ppl

wish we could sb them too

lol

I'm not a hanging judge and I fancy myself pretty circumspect, I just thought that what with ZS being newly back in the game, she should probably leave him be for awhile and not make it about her. PPl fail, ppl cheat, shit happens and I'm not privy to the dets enough to offer much more than sympathy but telling your ex they're moving on too fast speaks to a massive and unwelcome ego imo.

I dunno if I don't disagree with you, E.

Yeah, in a relationship things aren't black-and-white for those ivolvec and at the end of (or throughout) a relationship you're not gonna be in a place where you judge- or want to judge- your partner's behaviour. Most ppl have been there and understand that, the scaled eyes and the whatnot.

But, from the neutral (or ZS-friendly, indeed) perspective I think it's fair to say 'nah that's bullshit behaviour' when there is clearly bullshit behaviour, y'know?

i lost my sought-for jerry springer tone at the end there somewhat

Darragh, I don't think you were actually disagreeing with me at all. I guess I just have to remind myself that ppl are looking out for the person involved and that's what matters most despite the fact that there are often reasons and complications for the bullshit behavior of the other person involved that might not be considered.

maybe i wasnt but i was judging u anyway

I am very mean & judgemental tbf

I don't think there is much gray in the cheating dept: did you sleep with someone else? Did you have an agreement with your partner to be monogamous? If you answer yes to both those questions, then you cheated, you betrayed your partner. All the context in the world won't change those facts, including but not limited to: I was drunk; we were going through a rough patch, we were ” practically” broken up, we ” eventually” broke up anyway, my partner is a terrible person, my partner doesn't treat me right.

I might feel more compassion for the cheater in some contexts over others, but probably only if the cheater is my friend.

I wasn't really talking about that in particular tbh and wouldn't necessarily agree with what you said there either.

lol I meant disagree, not agree

goddamn it e stand yr ground and FIGHT US

I don't want to fight! You didn't say anything diff than what I said, really. I guess I just like to look at the big picture and realize that people are imperfect and sometimes do shitty things and while that sucks it doesn't necessarily make them a bad person.

I'm too tired to fight anyway and I've got dinner to make.

But I guess if the person on the receiving end of the shitty behavior is a friend it's often hard to do that esp if you don't know the other person at all.

Emotions/relationships are hard and people are complicated. I get pretty annoyed when people draw hard lines in issues of romance/partnerships about things that are really subjective, complicated, and relationship-specific. For the record, I am not excusing her or anyone's actions nor am I saying ZS doesn't have a right to be angry about this. It just irks me how quick ppl are to pass p harsh and swift judgement on ppl even when I realize that they're probably doing so to be supportive of their friend.

this is otm
I kinda think this tendency is exemplified at its apex, can run wild, when these conversations happen online?, also; like a few of the things about it - how limited the information you're getting is, that it comes in one voice, that it's something you receive alone, that you don't even have, really, vicarious access to the antagonist's POV, etc - I can understand why it leaves so little room for rebuttal, or leads so clearly to one point of view, how dare they, or w/e. & that isn't bad, because I think the thing it elicits is maybe "I feel for you for feeling that way about it", & so we're sympathetic. but I get discomforted by the idea that anyone involved would feel they had a clear picture & felt confident about what had happened. relationships are the actual most complicated thing I think, I p much can't talk about them irl because I think you need ten thousand hours of conversation about the macro level dynamics involved before you can even get a sense of where anyone was coming from. in relationships you talk to someone for hours at night w/the lights off; trying to relay things that have happened w/soneone you were so profoundly entwined w/ can't easily be done w/others imo.

but also yeah i don't think you're disagreeing, & none of this precludes the kinda broadbrush "someone cheated on you" "that's p bad" exchanges itt

Thanks Schlump. That was v well put imo.

think whatever the corrected version of yr:

I wasn't really talking about that in particular tbh and wouldn't necessarily agree with what you said there either.

post was otm, also, it being something i eventually kinda understood at least the complexity of, having previously been p binary about it all. that there's context doesn't diminish someone def having done wrong, or doesn't necessarily edge anything closer to being more inevitable or more forgiveable, etc, it just sometimes is a thing that helps you understand why someone did the thing they shouldn't have

ehh, I'm gonna take a page from Mr. DJP's book and just flat out say that I genuinely believe a lot of (most of) people are actually a bonkers level of crazy and barely holding their shit together. maybe it's only by living with people for an extended period of time that you get to see the cracks well enough to know of the slobbering horror lying beneath, and also reveal your own seeping pits-of-hell insanity to somebody else. and once that revelation has happened, or happens in a hazy, smouldering always at the periphery of your vision way – once you've seen + revealed the skinless, raw, and pitiful aspects of all the parties in your own relationship - only then can you determine how well the standard rules of engagement w/r/t relationships apply to you.

Both otm imo.

but... but... but I want life to be simple

Yeah well then, you're fuck. Sorry, man.

I don't think there is much gray in the cheating dept: did you sleep with someone else?

i would say this is pretty gray indeed!

what if you kissed someone else, what if you harbored lustful thoughts in your heart, etc. that line is going to be different for ppl in different relationships.

naaaaaaaaaah

^

I'm stranding betwween a v young lady and a much older man, q who derm to know each other by sight only. Guy just introduced himself a nd it's proceeding to hit on her

Standing
although I do feel stranded

Exhibit #1:

http://willblogforfood.typepad.com/will_blog_for_food/images/lewinskydress.jpg

mookie otm

lol - where is this happening, Justine?