thumbsucker blues: sandbox parenting thead

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (348 of them)
I did both, cloth and disposable. Cloth first, with a 3 month gift of diaper service. Then, struggling to maintain that with no washer and having to haul tons of soggy stinky cloth to the laundromat (along with baby), every day. And you either have to wash them in a hot automatic washer, or boil them for hours in many changes of water (which, believe it or not, costs $$ in many places), otherwise diaper rash galore. Believe me childless persons, it can be really really bad. Unfortunately, we didn't live in a community that would tolerate naked babies running around shitting freely outdoors in the summer, no matter how adorable. I would have jumped on that bandwagon in a heartbeat.

And no, you can never afford kids. But that is part of what makes them so precious. They are worth pretty much every sacrifice and hardship, in the long run.

jaq (jaq), Friday, 29 December 2006 18:13 (seventeen years ago) link

DOes cost of laundrette/electricity needed to clean cloth nappies outweight cost of disposables?

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Friday, 29 December 2006 18:23 (seventeen years ago) link

In some places, yes. Water costs $ too. Fewer disposables are used vs. cloth (even with wool diaper covers), which is a large part of the equation. Factor in the cost of labor for the person sanitizing (dirty cloth diapers take at least 2 times the amount of work to scrape and rinse (one toilet flush minimum, generally two) after changing than the time it takes to process a dirty disposable) and any "economy" goes out the window.

jaq (jaq), Friday, 29 December 2006 18:44 (seventeen years ago) link

too many variables--are you using a service and what kind of mileage do those delivery vans get? what kind of washer do you have? do you dry in a machine or by line? how far are the disposables traveling and how are they made etc etc.

teeny (teeny), Friday, 29 December 2006 18:46 (seventeen years ago) link

although I'm talking in a cst-to-the-earth kind of way I guess. One of my books (Baby Bargains) said that service is the most expensive, then disposables, then doing your own cloth diapers.

teeny (teeny), Friday, 29 December 2006 18:48 (seventeen years ago) link

I just wondered. What about environmental factors? As I say, I have no vested interest in any of this, but am curious as to the convenience factor/spend-spend-spend attitude of many parents when so many of our parents (presumably) had to do without so many of these luxuries.

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Friday, 29 December 2006 18:50 (seventeen years ago) link

also keep in mind that both types have improved dramatically in the last 20 years. Here's a good primer on cloth: http://moxie.blogs.com/askmoxie/2006/03/qa_cloth_diaper.html

I have only done disposable, although I am thinking of starting to do a half-and-half thing, now that I only have one poop a day to deal with and I generally know when it happens.

teeny (teeny), Friday, 29 December 2006 18:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I don't even want to start on the environmental costs of either. There are plenty of studies out there, most outdated and neglectful of some aspect (depending on who funded the study). People are an expensive burden on the planet, no matter their size.

My grandmother (circa 1930) claimed to have potty-trained her kids from birth. Basically, she just knew when to hold them over the toilet.

jaq (jaq), Friday, 29 December 2006 18:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Hand-wash your nappies in a stream! Everyone's a winner!

(seriously, I have no real bother one way or the other. It always seemed to me that real nappies would be better all round than disposables, but now I'm not so sure. I'm directing my rage solely at people with £200 baby monitors now)

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Friday, 29 December 2006 18:58 (seventeen years ago) link

One of my earliest memories of my mother is seeing her kneeling beside the bath with her sleeves pushed up as far as they'd go, wringing out my sister's nappies before she could put them in the machine. And oh boy, that smell.

Madchen (Madchen), Friday, 29 December 2006 21:13 (seventeen years ago) link

We have an enormous box of washable nappies which we were fully intending to use on Alice, but she is WAY too small for them at the moment (only just out of premature baby size disposables in fact). But when she gets big enough I will let you know how we manage! I must say it's not a tempting prospect at the moment - more because of the extra time involved, which feels like a very scarce commodity right now, than because of smelliness/grossness. But I'm willing to try it.

And I'm definitely with you about needless gadgets ailsa. I think I spent a total of £9 of my own money on preparing for Alice (on clothes at an NCT nearly new sale) and everything else was donated/Freecycled/bought by parents. She's obviously going to cost a lot more now she's actually here but at least babies don't know/care if their gear is second-hand or improvised.

It probably helps that we have no space for anything anyway. But thank god someone else fulfilled Alice's pressing need for a giant corduroy bunny:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/159/336141847_70fb1e064d.jpg?v=0

Archel (Archel), Saturday, 30 December 2006 06:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Archel, that's totally precious :) Alice is such a doll! Do you find yourself just watching her sleep?

It's my opinion that the most important thing you can give your children, the thing they will truly remember, is your time, and I personally think that the small conveniences of modern living that truly give us more time to spend where we choose are well worth it.

jaq (jaq), Saturday, 30 December 2006 08:37 (seventeen years ago) link

It's my opinion that the most important thing you can give your children, the thing they will truly remember, is your time

Very true. I was going to say, with all this "can we afford it?" talk - the hurtin' isn't just on your wallet (and you can control that to a certain extent by being thrifty), it's on your free time, which (with two or more kids especially) may well dwindle away to nothing.

example-now typing one-fingered with fussy T in crook of arm...gotta go

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Saturday, 30 December 2006 09:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Twohundred pounds on monitor: that'll probably be the one that prevents crib death, right? Not very useful as it tends to be *faulty* (will send of an alarm signal when baby's just asleep). Even though I was so scared of crib death, I decided not to buy it. Not only because of cost price - we could afford it - but it didn't seem trustworthy.

Toys? We have a lot but Ophelia prefers taking out all the paper out of closets. The first half year you don't need much at all.

We didn't think about the cost of having a baby. Mostly because it wasn't a problem. (Being the worrier that I am, it does However I didn't realize how much money can/is spent on a baby! WTF man. I did switch from yr fancy ass (hah!) Pampers to a cheaper (and imo better) alternative. Saves us a ton of money. Same goes with those towelettes: 1 euro instead of 3 euros. Hey and I knit her sweaters. ;-) Just kidding. But if I wanted I could save a lot of money on clothing by knitting all her sweaters (instead of buying'em). Still, no designer clobber for Ophelia. It's ridiculous even if you have the money.

We get £127/month in Child Benefit

WTF! We get about 55 pounds. Oh wait is that for two kids? I put all the money on her savings account.

Archel, that's one of my favourite baby pics EVER.

nathalie (stevienixed), Saturday, 30 December 2006 09:11 (seventeen years ago) link

(Being the worrier that I am,

Oops, this is what happens when you turn around and look at Ophelia crawling around: you forget to type the rest of the sentence.

nathalie (stevienixed), Saturday, 30 December 2006 09:57 (seventeen years ago) link

the most important thing you can give your children, the thing they will truly remember, is your time, and I personally think that the small conveniences of modern living that truly give us more time to spend where we choose are well worth it.

the most OTM post on any parenting thread evah.

m coleman (lovebug ), Saturday, 30 December 2006 12:39 (seventeen years ago) link

The most important thing is not to be an absentee father....like mine was and still is. That's why I'll never get married or have kids.

LynnK (klynn), Saturday, 30 December 2006 15:54 (seventeen years ago) link

My brother Charlie (25 years my junior -- go Dad!)

One month:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/123/338594661_3b4e731ae8.jpg

Three months (on Boxing Day):

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/150/338630898_62d68693f9.jpg

caek (caek), Saturday, 30 December 2006 19:01 (seventeen years ago) link

babies are expensive? it the teenage years that scare me!

sunny successor (katarina), Saturday, 30 December 2006 21:10 (seventeen years ago) link

by then i'll have trained her to work for me. hey, she can already crawl behind the counter. wink wink

nathalie (stevienixed), Saturday, 30 December 2006 22:21 (seventeen years ago) link

We avoided one of the biggest teenage expenses when Sarah showed no interest in driving. Auto insurance rates for teens be buggin'!

Joe Isuzu's Petals (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 30 December 2006 22:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, if it's in yr genes: GREAT cause neither me nor the husband drives a car. :-D

nathalie (stevienixed), Saturday, 30 December 2006 22:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Your mileage may vary (HAW!) re: Belgian insurance rates.

Joe Isuzu's Petals (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 30 December 2006 22:51 (seventeen years ago) link

I had to work to get enough money to get my own car and insurance. You lot are really nice parents, or your kids are all spoilt.

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Saturday, 30 December 2006 22:53 (seventeen years ago) link

I'd like to think it's the former. My parents paid mine, and my wife's parents did for her as well even though they were pretty poor. I wonder what percentage of parents do that for the kids, and what percentage put that on the kids to take care of?

Joe Isuzu's Petals (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 30 December 2006 23:04 (seventeen years ago) link

I was covered until my first ticket. Then the parents told me I was on my own, insurance-wise. Pretty fair in hindsight.

PPlains (PPlains), Saturday, 30 December 2006 23:42 (seventeen years ago) link

Can one of you lot adopt me please?

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Saturday, 30 December 2006 23:43 (seventeen years ago) link

I added my daughter and my step-daughter to my insurance until they were 23 (cheaper than getting them their own policies). I also gave them AAA (and am continuing this) to prevent me having to deliver them gas/unlock their cars/tow them/worry so much. Neither my son nor step-son drove before that age (my son just got his license, a few weeks ago). I didn't think about PPlains parents' very sensible limit - thankfully, neither daughter had a ticket!

jaq (jaq), Sunday, 31 December 2006 00:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Can I ask what may be a daft question? In both my childcare books (Dorling Kindersley and Miriam Stoppard) there are handy charts as to how many sheets and cot blankets one should use on a crib/cot depending on the room temperature. But neither of them is very clear on whether your baby should be put to bed in a sleepsuit, vest and nappy, or just a nappy. What do/did your newborns find most comfortable?

(My baby overheating or getting a chill during the night is just one of the things I'm looking forward to worrying about!)

Meg Busset (Meg Busset), Sunday, 31 December 2006 15:02 (seventeen years ago) link

I think it just depends from baby to baby. Mine hated being swaddled, even in the hospital. I should have used a sleepsuit right away. Now I just put her in PJs and a sleepsuit. She also hase a onesie (?) on as well. Sometimes I just leave her in the onesie and her long sleeve shirt (and of course her sleepsuit).

Ah shit, sleepsuit is something different. Replace sleepsuit with sleepbag. Worked wonders for me!

So it's onesie+sleepsuit+sleepbag. Room temp about 21 to 18 degrees celcius.

your kids are all spoilt.

There are few things that cause a knee-jerk reaction but the line 'you're kid is spoilt' is one of them. I know you don't mean it the wrong way - or at least I hope not - but argh how I hate that line. :-)

nathalie (stevienixed), Sunday, 31 December 2006 16:45 (seventeen years ago) link

From a just-had-twins perspective:

1. No freaking WAY we would use cloth diapers. My mother-in-law disabused us of any thoughts of cloth diapers, and I'm glad she did.

2. With twins there is no chance for anyone to be an absentee parent, which is good, except when you want to take a break.

3. Last night, we switched from those fluffy terry-cloth-like baby suits to thin cotton ones, and wrapped them up in fleece swaddlers. They slept for 8 HOURS! I don't know if it was that, or the fact that we tanked them up with milk and formula before bed, or if it was just random, but it was awesome. Maybe they had been getting too hot in the night. If you use swaddlers, and the houe is relatively warm, I don't think you need blankets at all, at least at first.

schwantz (schwantz), Sunday, 31 December 2006 16:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Nathalie, you can take it any which way you want - if the cap fits and all that. My parents were, and have continued to be, very loving, caring, generous and supportive. But I didn't get stuff like driving lessons, car insurance, a car, etc etc - I didn't expect it and didn't want it. I was old enough to work and earn my own money, why the hell should my parents still have to give me stuff (I mean, I wouldn't have complained if they had decided they really wanted to, but I don't believe it to be as necessary as the need to feed and clothe me when I wasn't able to do so myself)? YMMV, obviously, and I didn't mean it as an insult so much as a casually tossed-away observation about what does and doesn't count as a necessary expense of parenting.

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Sunday, 31 December 2006 17:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Meg - while we were still in the hospital one of the nursery nurses insisted that Alice needed to be in three layers (ie vest, sleepsuit, swaddle blanket) plus a blanket on top, so for the first few days this is what she slept in. And a hat too! But having got home she seemed perfectly warm (feel the back of the neck or the chest, not the hands or feet) in just a cotton sleepsuit with one or two blankets over her (and disliked being swaddled) so that's what we go with mostly now.

Archel (Archel), Sunday, 31 December 2006 21:25 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, cos Tallulah was so small and fragile, we were also advised to go with three layers, a hat and a blanket for the first few weeks. She still sleeps with a blanket. Ava has rarely slept in more than a sleepsuit or a onesie/T/pants/socks - and she's never had a blanket.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 31 December 2006 21:55 (seventeen years ago) link

My Ava's been keeping a "diary" of late. Pictures accompanied by surreal stories. This is her explaining one of them to Tallulah.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/340259556_fd5ef5b113.jpg

Andrew (enneff), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 07:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Stop it with the Ava and Tallulah confusions! I read that before the picture loaded and thought, wow, Ava's one clever kid, keeping a diary and writing stories before she's two. Then I realised it was a different Ava.

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 12:25 (seventeen years ago) link

I had not seen this thread before now, so...

CONGRATULATIONS ARCHEL FAMILY!

I did wonder about you at one point during the hoilday, you know.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 12:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Thank you!

I managed to sleep from 3am until 9am today thanks to Matt doing early morning feeds, hurrah! Alice and I may even venture out later on to celebrate my relative lack of tiredness.

Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 13:39 (seventeen years ago) link

Andrew's Ava is a beauty. (His Tallulah is too but that's Overstepping The Mark and beyond the scope of this thread.)

Apologies for the confusion; I could call my kids by their middle names, if you like - Galvin and Greer. But that makes them sound like sheet music publishers from the turn of the 20th century.

Do you want to see something sad? Do you promise not to forward to Social Services? Ava, the morning after clocking herself on the edge of a chair (check out the shiner on her left eye):

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/161/340782436_f8f00f3207.jpg

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 13:59 (seventeen years ago) link

She looks like she's gone 12 rounds with Cuddles the Monkey.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 14:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Aww, ain't nothin' cuter than a kid with a black eye.

Stop it with the Ava and Tallulah confusions!

Mine were first!

Andrew (enneff), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 23:28 (seventeen years ago) link

One time my younger son had TWO black eyes when we went for a well-baby check-up. The pediatrician didn't even blink. He had rambunctious kids of his own—he knew how it is. I remember that one of the black eyes was from him lurching from my arms as I held him in my parked car and whacking his face on the side mirror! The other one was from falling onto a toy.
This same kid later broke his nose with his own knee when he lost his balance while squatting down to tie his shoe.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 00:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Aww (wee) Ava...

luna (luna), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 03:08 (seventeen years ago) link

This same kid later broke his nose with his own knee when he lost his balance while squatting down to tie his shoe.

Oh, bless!

Ava's eye really coming on a treat now - will post some more pix to Flickr when I get the chance. She'll love me for this when she's 13.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 09:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Ophelia's been pointing the remote control at the telly the last couple of days. It's so darn cute but also somewhat scary in a way.

nathalie (stevienixed), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 09:19 (seventeen years ago) link

I've opened up this here ILX Sandwich Box specifically to find out how Archel was getting on - great to hear that everything is going well and very many congratulations on Alice! Do get in touch if I can help in any way - dunno if they recommend going for a pint in any of your baby books, but um, it certainly worked for me.

NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 13:58 (seventeen years ago) link

Louis does that with the remote too and we don't watch a lot of tv! just imitation I guess, he sweeps with the broom too.

I just recovered from a 24-hour stomach flu that had me puking every hour or two. I don't know what I would have done if my husband couldn't have stayed home with me, it was miserable. I lost six pounds and I was already underweight. I think my milk production went down, we tried giving Louis cow's milk and he was totally not having it! Everyone is fine now though.

teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 15:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh! Poor Teeny!

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 16:07 (seventeen years ago) link

ava looks like shes in bikini kill

sunny successor (katarina), Thursday, 4 January 2007 03:14 (seventeen years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.