most regrettable choice for album of the year, as chosen by THE WIRE

there's no way this isn't Ferrar, but I just thought I'd open it up to the group.

*ferraro

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsz4f4rlU41qj2iteo1_500.gif

2006: Burial - Burial

dunno if regrettable is the word i'd choose, least essential maybe. quite a few "of their moment" choices here but there's nothing intrinsically wrong with being of yr moment. don't think either of the SY records are anything to shout about, Debut is Bjork's least good album for me, Comicopera is good but i dunno that it's in Wyatt's front rank, the Mouse on Mars joint isn't all that. only one i don't know at all is James Ferraro.

wd it be mischievous to point out how some of these choices are like reiterations of the same album a few years down the line? Maxinquaye into London Zoo, Dummy becomes Burial etc

wd probly vote for Thousand Leaves but i suppose i shd check this Ferraro dude

Huh, I think most of these actually stand up over the years. Was expecting more lolsome results. I guess I'll go with Burial.

wtf is actress

Also, voting for Ferraro is a sure sign that you're not actually engaging with the question (even if you set the question yourself, ahem). It's a knee-jerk zing reaction that shows no intellectual engagement with the issues behind what would make any of these regrettable, or why.

what are the "intellectual issues" on a joke poll on second-string ilx?

Voted Vespertine. Really, really loathe that record. Turned me off Björk for good.

Also, voting for Ferraro is a sure sign that you're not actually engaging with the question (even if you set the question yourself, ahem). It's a knee-jerk zing reaction that shows no intellectual engagement with the issues behind what would make any of these regrettable, or why.

― Illia Rump (emil.y), Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:04 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

Well, I would like a discussion about what makes these regrettable. Like I think common wisdom is "LOLZ ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT" but I honestly think 3 Years is easily one of the three or four best albums on that list!

I mean, i think what defines regrettable is 1. "This critical acclaim for this album, this artist and and this music has no legs" and 2. "This album is actually bad"

And while trip-hop, backpacker rap and IDM have all bowed out of the race earlier than anticipated, I'm def not gonna shit on those albums by Tricky, APC and Mouse On Mars. Ferrero-brand lolzwave is not only gonna be a national punchline in like 7 months but the dude is completely worthless (see pic)

can you give us a preview now of what kind of james ferraro jokes will be in jay leno monologues in july?

Well, Arrested Development and two of the Robert Wyatt records I don't really know all the way through, so I can't judge. I thought AD had a bit of a critical reappraisal, though?

i had a half second where i was like "yeah, isn't the arrested development guy in that shabazz palace thing now? no wait that's another lol early 90s crit rap group"

Oh, and what am I supposed to be seeing in the picture that illustrates a human being's complete lack of worth?

"regrettable" i guess refers to those vagary of fashion decisions yeah, like Arrested Development stopped being cool very quickly amongst a certain constituency but that is still a solid album, i feel similar about the Antipop record which was burdened with all that horrible "future of rap" shit at the time from people who knew fuck all about rap, but in its own niche that's a good album that's probably easier to hear outside of any idiot ideas of cool. Burial will be in the same proper neutral zone in another 4 or 5 years i guess.

Three Robert Wyatt records! I like all their most recent #1s.
I don't understand what is James Ferraro and why this is a thing. The picture is not illuminating.

his keyboard and his hand drum are both pitifully small, it's a disgrace

james ferraro/the skaters have been around for years now. never been a fan but dont get the 'lol' now.

Oh, and what am I supposed to be seeing in the picture that illustrates a human being's complete lack of worth?

― Illia Rump (emil.y), Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:21 AM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

his entire set up is a child's toy that he doesn't know how to play and a Line 6 pedal

I mean, i saw him play a show in brooklyn and it was literally one of the most insulting things I've ever seen. Just embarrassing for everyone. It's a huge con.

skaters rule

Why is the keyboard a "child's toy"?

As a keyboard player, I'm feeling pretty insulted here, by the way.

you should be! james ferraro is not a keyboard player!

(Also, how am I supposed to gather from the picture that he doesn't know how to play it? The fact that it's got writing on it? I've seen fucking loads of very talented players with keyboards w/ writing on, for various reasons.)

xpost - that still doesn't answer why you describe it as a "child's toy" (nor in fact why if it were a child's toy that would be an inherently bad thing)

emily, i've seen him, he can't play it

his show was literally like watching a 10 year old play his Casio for the first time in front of a crowd of paying adults. Atrocious.

Emily, if your keyboard friends are playing with more than two fingers, they're def far out of my crosshairs on this

No, I mean, it's fair enough if his live show is shitty shit shit. I like the album from this year, kind of boggled that it was #1, but I don't think it's a big problem if that was the consensus pick for Wire writers - the list as a whole was a bit strange to me.

My main problem with what you're saying is that the picture doesn't show that he's shit and worthless! At all. And you're not really backing up your claim by saying that you've seen him and thus know - what you were saying was that all we needed to do was look at the picture. Lies! Vicious lies.

(Also, you can be a good keyboard player and play with only one finger, you know. That's the difference between playing piano and playing synth.)

Saying that about the picture was a trolly joke, emily, sheesh!

I might still be drunk. Not saying this has anything to do with anything, but... just saying.

i saw the skaters live three times, and each time they were p amazing - totally made manifest a spooked, zoned out 'otherness' that was incredibly persuasive and exciting and p unique - technique, or o/wise, didn't come into it, didn't matter. ferraro's music since then hasn't been quite so interesting, to me, but this alb chosen by the wire is clever, quite skillfully made, and yes, some of the ideas behind it are interesting and worth exploring - there's certainly much more to it than retro nostalgia, ironic appropriation or whatevs. and the songtitles are great - i esp like 'condo pets'.

It's almost as if I don't really believe that about the photo, but it would be a funnier way of trying to prove my point! :P

wd probly vote for Thousand Leaves but i suppose i shd check this Ferraro dude

― Ban (Julie Lagger), Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:53 (1 hour ago) Bookmark

srsly ATL is the best thing on here by a lot

Voted Arrested Development.

I like the ferraro.

Voting A Thousand Leaves as well.

1992: Arrested Development - 3 Years, 5 Months & 2 Days in the Life of... idk
1993: Bjork - Debut fair enough idk who cares
1994: Portishead - Dummy "
1995: Tricky - Maxinquaye "
1996: Tortoise - Millions Now Living Will Never Die a bad precedent
1997: Robert Wyatt - Shleep they do things differently there
1998: Sonic Youth - A Thousand Leaves ...
1999: Mouse On Mars - Niun Niggung fair enough
2000: Antipop Consortium - Tragic Epilogue probably one of the more defensible modish choices
2001: Björk - Vespertine idk couldnt they vote for confield or sthing just this once
2002: Sonic Youth - Murray Street controversial uptown outfit the youth will have been delighted
2003: Robert Wyatt - Cuckooland w/e
2004: Albert Ayler - Holy Ghost Box Set filial piety from the wireites
2005: The Books – Lost & Safe no, not this
2006: Burial - Burial u can see why but no
2007: Robert Wyatt - Comicopera oh christ
2008: The Bug - London Zoo tschhhh
2009: Broadcast & The Focus Group Investigate Witch Cults Of The Radio Age lol
2010: Actress - Splazsh resposible for one of my most bile ridden aspiebait threads so good work
2011: James Ferraro - Far Side Virtual guessing this is pleasantly waste

that james ferraro album is hilarious

Oh I wish I could read that Actress thread now.

xp the Casio SK-1 has tiny keys and a low sample rate but I wouldn't call it a "child's toy". Monomes, Gameboys, Tenori-Ons, Ableton Live; those are toys.

maybe whiney doesnt realize it's a joke?

Damn I hope im not soundin like some headbanger mad at Tenacious D

If it's some joke then kudos, but actually liking it is lower than ca. 2010 "DIE ANTWOORD GOT CHOONS" revisionism

I entirely understand someone hating the Ferraro album but for better or worse it doesn't really sound like anything else so I don't see how it's going to embody any sort of collective attitude

btw best albums on this list are Bug, Ayler and Arrested Development real talk

lolling @ the wire is so fun

whiney please nominate your top five albums of "wire music" for 2011

The Ferraro record stands out as the least, uh, crafty of all these records, for sure.

i like those bjork records, portishead, the ayler i've never heard but i'm sure it's good

i'm listening to ferraro now oh wait i had to turn it off because i get the "joke" which just leaves unlistenable casio music

ATY over Comicopera.

whiney's jihad against neo-new-age is about 9 months past its sell-by imo sorry dude. if you can't hear the qualitative difference between ferraro & the altered zones shit you hate so much then you are doing some lazy listening imo

also, voted bjork because her music is & has always been horrible

not a big bjork fan, but vespertine is beautiful and bjork aside, the music on that is heaps more inventive than eg murray street

Vespertine, along with Tortoise, is the best, most ground-breaking record in terms of progressive sound on this list.

<3 vespertine, my 2nd favourite björk album

weirdly what stands out to me on glancing at this list is how uhhh mainstream the first 4 are! in the sense of their profile. tbh an equivalent list for most other publications would almost certainly be more embarrassing

I misread the title -- my two picks would be my favorites (and Vespertine).

weirdly what stands out to me on glancing at this list is how uhhh mainstream the first 4 are! in the sense of their profile. tbh an equivalent list for most other publications would almost certainly be more embarrassing
― degas-dirty monet (lex pretend),

Kerrang
1992 Alice In Chains - Dirt
1993 Pearl Jam - Vs
1994 Therapy? - Troublegum
1995 Foo Fighters - Foo Fighters
1996 Screaming Trees - Dust

Troublegum!

The Face
1992 1. Arrested Development - Three Years, Five Months And Two Days In The LIfe Of...
1993 Bjork - Debut
1994 Portishead – Dummy
1995 Tricky - Maxinquaye
1996 Fugees- The Score

welp, lex otm

looks like there was pretty much a consensus in those years GAPDYXX fans

I do like it when The Wire go to bat for an artist, esp. a newish one, one who is such typical fodder for the magazine. i.e. a band that only The Wire would put at #1, like Ayler, The Books, Actress.

Sorry for confusing verbs + nouns when switching btw "artist" and "band" I don't know how you guys keep it together

whiney please nominate your top five albums of "wire music" for 2011

― los krampusinos! (pomplamau5), Sunday, December 11, 2011 12:59 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Permalink

Article coming at the end of Dec, actually!

A GAME OF HORSESHOES

lol

Hate that The Bug POS so much, worse than Burial

Giving Far Side Virtual #1 is admirable trolling, wtg WIRE

the bug album is awesome

A Thousand Leaves is my favourite of these, and Murray Street is my least favourite. I've only heard about half of them though. Haven't heard the Ferraro.

Tony Herrington's comments on the 2011 list are interesting:

Because when you look closely, the individual wills that gave rise to such an outcome (The Wire‘s contributors say James Ferraro’s Far Side Virtual is the best thing released this year) start to appear rather peculiar in relation to it, ie: out of an electorate of 60 voters, only seven actually voted for Far Side Virtual in their individual top tens – that’s less than 12 per cent of the total electorate; and none of those electors who did vote for it actually had it as their individual top release of the year.

PAZZ & JOP
1992 Arrested Development - 3 Years, 5 Months, And 2 Days In The Life Of...
1993 Liz Phair - Exile In Guyville
1994 Hole - Live Through This
1995 PJ Harvey - To Bring You My Love
1996 Beck - Odelay

P&J no different to other lists

I think Murray Street is the last true great SY album. I couldn't care less for the patchy, mediocre ATL. Murray Street is just so gripping, from beginning to end.

ditto

well except some of the ones since then have been pretty great, just not as great

Exactly. Sonic Nurse comes close, but it's no Murray Street

Fom their blog:

http://www.thewire.co.uk/themire/tag/releases-of-the-year

Anyway, sitting conspicuously at the top of The Wire’s Releases of the Year chart for 2011 is James Ferraro’s Far Side Virtual, by dint of the simple and maybe even bleedingly obvious fact that more staff and contributors voted for it than any other release issued this year. But what does that mean exactly? Because when you look closely, the individual wills that gave rise to such an outcome (The Wire‘s contributors say James Ferraro’s Far Side Virtual is the best thing released this year) start to appear rather peculiar in relation to it, ie: out of an electorate of 60 voters, only seven actually voted for Far Side Virtual in their individual top tens – that’s less than 12 per cent of the total electorate; and none of those electors who did vote for it actually had it as their individual top release of the year.

Far Side Virtual

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OaIaQ8JefM

Oops sorry for posting that blog post again.

i fucking hate ilm so much

lol

But this is Sandbox ILM Lamp, you can make a REAL DIFFERENCE

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvepu1KTat1qexyuco1_400.gif

2006: Burial - Burial

yeah burial is probably the worst album itt and the most lol in retrospect (and thus regrettable?)

millions now living is maybe the worst choice in light of other options tho

waht... Millions now living is great!

And I still like Burial's album too ;_;

can someone transcribe The Wire's review of LULU from earlier this year? had no idea they liked it. looks like it made their 2011 top ten...

Two writers had it as their #1 iirc (Dave Keenan was one of them)

idg the burial skrillex.gif

the sound of one dubstep joke clapping

the Ayler box set is far and away the best of all of these.

but then the Ayler is the one thing on that list that wasn't contemporary, so it stands out in that regard.

But seriously, the concept of "album of the year" just seems so temporary as it is. And it's such an arbitrary exercise -- like a combo of stuffed-animal arranging and marketing ploy. The idea that years down the road people would discuss what is a "regrettable choice" just seems silly to me -- unless we're talking about having picked something that later led to mass murder, or the artist turned out to be a pedophile, wife-beater or racist or something.

isn't it so regrettable that they chose this one dude who can't even play a keyboard

considering how many singers that can't sing have gotten critical praise --

No idea whats funny about the James Ferraro record - I really quite like it. Prefer it to the others on this list

i have to admit i did laugh at the Casio Sk-1 and line 6 pedal combo -- because it was a cliche which led to an inside joke several years ago.

the Ayler box set, like most box sets, is possibly 'too much of a good thing' - though the track with cecil taylor alone is more 'gound-breaking' than Tortoise cld ever hope to be. when i was last in volcanic tongue, keenan was playing that new ayler live concert disc on hatart and it sounded absolutely FANTASTIC - a better way into Ayler, IMHO.

Is anyone buying a massive box set as a way in? If so, they're nuts.

most people i know that bought the Ayler box were already Ayler fans and thought the box was a very attractive object.

I finally got a copy for myself a few months ago. It's a stunner.

ferraro himself is not funny it's just funny that the wire gave #1 of the year to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfwoSXQx_uw with some bs concept or whatever

I don't know anything about the bs concept! - I only listened to the record because it came up in the EOY list thread and I'd never heard of him before

voted bjork because I can't stand her.

I don't understand the music of this james ferraro guy and I don't care enough to explore any further because it's like listening to raw black metal production applied to indie stuff. he looks like a cool dude though.

most people i know...thought the box was a very attractive object.

― sarahel, Sunday, December 11, 2011 5:52 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Permalink

most forks i know...thought the chair was a very attractive object

✔

picks from last 3 years are totally embarrassing

also, with most of the 90s stuff you get the feeling they were trying to do the "#1 albums as big statements" kind of approach to listmaking, the recent picks OTOH are more like random shit put together in a hurry or something. actress and ferraro are laughable choices, c'mon.

That Broadcast & the Focus Group record is great. Not embarrassing at all. To be honest, I wouldn't say the Actress record is embarrassing either, even though I'm not that keen on it.

the actress record is great c'mon

xposts FOUR yrs dude, The Bug

that bug record is great.

wtf man, broadcast and the focus group, actress, the bug are good records.

most people i know that bought the Ayler box were already Ayler fans and thought the box was a very attractive object.

― sarahel, Sunday, December 11, 2011 5:52 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Permalink

That's how I felt about it, being a longtime Ayler fan. But I actually felt like I was making certain allowances: yeah, it's got too many embarrassing outtakes from his worst record, but it's also got his Newport set with Milford Graves. Yeah, it's got two entire CDs of not-entirely-coherent interviews, but it's also got his lone recording with Cecil Taylor. I don't know where the idea that this box was supposed to be an entry point into, or even an overview of Ayler's work came about -- it's all previously-unreleased and, one assumes, for fans mostly. It's more important as a historical document than it is as a word -- first, last, or otherwise -- on Ayler's work.

i likes that book album

I cant wait to look back in a couple years at the most regrettable ILM threads

couple of weeks when ilm is back you mean

why do people already regret albums they liked three years ago?

http://www.geeksguidetodating.com/book/images/28%20Rules%20of%20cool.gif

but then ironically the 28 rules are usually part of the selection process so

AD album is so terrible, can't imagine any of the things I haven't heard on here are worse.

the Burial album is literally the most unmemorable thing I've ever attempted to pay attention to

you probably don't remember the most unmemorable thing you've attempted to pay attention to

ahah

you probably don't remember the most unmemorable thing you've attempted to pay attention to

I know for a fact I don't remember the most unmemorable thing I've attempted to pay attention to because I've tried to listen to Burial multiple times and I don't remember a single thing about anything they've released.

Burial really is one of the worst things on this list easy

arrested development is the gift that keeps on giving

u dont even need a gift: dig your hands in the dirt, children play with earth

if you don't like the Metamorphosis mix of "People Everyday", you don't actually like music

almost all of these make more sense to me than having a totally middle-of-the-road Sonic Youth record as #1 of the year. Murray St was great but Thousand Leaves ... nah.

'far side virtual' is by far the most worthless thing on here.

it's ugly, stupid, pretentious, and you can't even dance to it.

lol listening to Burial again and now at least I have something to remember them by now (all of the terrible shit Jamie XX does is very Burial-influenced)

arrested development aren't so bad, i just thought it was a funny choice for avant-gardey THE WIRE

mark s was maybe editor then

The Burial album is still grebt tbh, fuiud

maybe Ferraro is so bad that it will fade into obscurity and then get rediscovered by people who never grew up hearing the Microsoft Windows midi sound.

The Burial album is still grebt tbh, fuiud

kinda redundant after his second album though, imo

Mm, ok, put that way I see what you mean. Maybe Burial's first album is the best example of "you had to have heard it then" or something.

I reckon Untrue should have beaten Comicopera, but The Drift should have beaten the first Burial one.

wire top trumps

yeah, Untrue got beaten on beard length

swans were robbed at the death

For what is worth Niun Niggung is fucking class and anyone who disagrees is a cloth eared cave dwelling cunt in a Hillman Hunter.

http://pablochiste.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/forrest_gump_303722x.jpg

How does one justify dismissing ATL as MOR and then in the same post call Murray Street great?

Like Murray Street is basically ATL with all the awesome unsettling skronk excised...

The Burial album is still grebt tbh, fuiud

― lebateauivre, Monday, December 12, 2011 7:03 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Permalink

kinda redundant after his second album though, imo

― los krampusinos! (pomplamau5), Monday, December 12, 2011 7:08 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Permalink

lol

How does one justify dismissing ATL as MOR and then in the same post call Murray Street great?

― massachusetts_capricorns_cru (henrietta lacks), Monday, December 12, 2011 7:39 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Permalink

Like Murray Street is basically ATL with all the awesome unsettling skronk excised...

― massachusetts_capricorns_cru (henrietta lacks), Monday, December 12, 2011 7:42 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Permalink

my favorite songs on each are "Rain On Tin" and "Wildflower Soul" so all i care about is the hippie epix

otm. I kinda forgot about wildflower soul. that's a good one.

i loved A Thousand Leaves at the time but it hasn't aged well, partly because the performances are a little lacking and partly because it's the only SY album longer than Daydream Nation and doesn't really justify it. some great songs here and there, though.

when Thousand Leaves wins this just wanna point out i wasn't saying it was a terrible record just pointless and unexceptional like every SY joint post Sister

thanks for the challops bro

it's only challops if everybody in SY doesn't agree with me

If I'm in the wrong mood ATY sounds boring (and Kim screechy), but "Hoarfrost" (my favorite Ranaldo song ever) and "Hits of Sunshine" never fail to grab me.

Al has a better memory about this than I do: didn't ATY score well in the late nineties Sonic Youth poll?

iirc in the poll of 90s albums it got left in the dust by dirty and washing machine and goo

man washing machine was a great album

^^^^^^

Am I missing something with this "ATY" acronym?

believe it was a play on the length & tediousness of the record, fans called it "A Thousand Years". I like it just fine though.

sonic youth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y21VecIIdBI

after a lot of thought i think i'm voting for vespertine because ugh, but then that books record never announced itself as anything noteworthy to me either, and then i've never heard a robert wyatt record but i guess i trust his pedigree

feel like one day that burial record is going to shrug off the gross stigma that you all attach to it

also wtf @ anyone who denounced the last few years of picks, the broadcast and actress records are pretty great and i much prefer kind of modest list toppers that just happened to be liked by a lot of people than, um, attempts at pinning the musical accomplishments of a year on one album

which may not be an accurate reflection of how lists are made but that's kind of how they come off every year forever

yeah that Broadcast record rules school

this thread is a p effective advertisement for the qualities of that ferraro record atp

Robert Wyatt steady has the shittiest album titles of any legacy artist

this thread is a p effective advertisement for the qualities of that ferraro record atp

? ?(?_ ?)?, Tuesday, 13 December 2011 05:54 (8 hours ago) Permalink

net etiquette says you should not provide unsolicited negative feedback but

'far side virtual' is by far the most worthless thing on here.

? nuhnuhnuh, Monday, 12 December 2011 21:57 (Yesterday) Permalink

it's ugly, stupid, pretentious, and you can't even dance to it.

? nuhnuhnuh, Monday, 12 December 2011 21:58 (Yesterday) Permalink

maybe Ferraro is so bad that it will fade into obscurity and then get rediscovered by people who never grew up hearing the Microsoft Windows midi sound.

? skip, Monday, 12 December 2011 23:05 (Yesterday) Permalink

just FYI. I want to vote bjork twice but I can't.

counterpoint

this thread is a p effective advertisement for the qualities of that ferraro record atp

― є(٥_ ٥)э, Tuesday, December 13, 2011 5:54 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Permalink

otm. if JF makes our year end list it will be because of this thread. I'm still convinced that the reason four out of five GAPDY artists made the 09 albums top 10 was because of that damned acronym

OK, now I've actually heard the James Ferraro record, it is both hilarious and oddly compelling.

It is like a Steve Reich piece recorded by LOLcats.

And that Wire blog explaining how it came to be number one all written in maths, like "this album being number one is due to a glitch in statistical analysis" is one of the most brilliant pieces of writing I've read all year.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

tschh

Broadcast & The Focus Group Investigate Witch Cults Of The Radio Age 2

I curse whoever these two posters are

Yeah that record is so good.

i listened to the first books record cuz of this thread & i think it still holds up p well

What's this hate for Arrested Development all about

they are lazy and terrible

There are a staggering number of lurkers btw. We've done 35gb of traffic in 10 days. They could crush you, if they weren't all hiding. listening to jeff buckley

The first two Books records are great, Lost & Safe is not. Odd choice really.

Best venue excuse I ever heard: "Sorry, we thought we'd get a good crowd tonight, but Arrested Development is playing down the street." Charlotte, NC circa 2005.

hey Lamp & mookie you seem to like Laika, you guys listen much to Moonshake? I was just playing Eva Luna and, man, I've had that album for about 15 years and it still just keeps getting better and better...

wow wrong thread

late robert wyatt is generally p bad but their affection for him is kind of touching. probably i would have voted mouse on mars because i mean come on

Come on what?

re: Ayler boxset. Knew of its existence but had no idea that he played w/Cecil and Graves...I've been asleep.

The early-to-mid 90s #1s are really gd. I guess people forget that Wire were staffed w/writers from both the Jazz AND the indie/pop end of the music press.

Not that I'll check but somehow doubt the latest crop of writers from the NME will get near so I wd guess (and I've only bought a cpl of issues in the last year) most of the writers come from the Merzbow end of the music paperless press.

That and K-Punk.

re: Ayler boxset. Knew of its existence but had no idea that he played w/Cecil and Graves...I've been asleep.

Graves was his go-to drummer for about a year and a half (he's on Love Cry). He didn't play much with Cecil: the snippet on the box may be the only time they played together. Supposedly, Jimmy Lyons (Cecil's alto saxophonist) wasn't a fan of Ayler's playing. But the Cecil-Ayler collaboration was long thought to be just a rumor before the box surfaced.