I AM SPEECHLESS WITH RAGE (2012 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Inductees)

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/07/showbiz/rock-hall-fame/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

(ps: not really)

lol

oh this should be 2012, oops

Does it really matter?

Why is Paul Shaffer on the nominating committee?

http://www.futurerocklegends.com/Nominating_Committee.php

I wish the rock n roll hall of fame operated like sports hofs and used statistics w/r/t album sales and end of year lists so we could have sabremetric arguments like "did the small faces really have a HOF career?"

Does it really matter?

nothing really matters now that The Cure have been bumped by RHCP

the ironic thing is that I wouldn't have had this reaction if RHCP had broken up after Blood Sugar Sex Magik

I was really (not at all) looking forward to seeing what young band they'd pick to honor Fat Bob and the boys.

Why is Freddie King an "early influence"? His first record came out in 1960.

kind of feels weird that RHCP and Beasties get in the headline but not GNR

i think Blink 182 are still the biggest Cure fans on the pop charts so it'll probably hilariously be them someday

kind of feels weird that RHCP and Beasties get in the headline but not GNR

in fairness, both RHCP and the Beasties still exist as commercially viable bands

yeah but the hilarious media circus around GNR has never really ended. if anything it will just get more fun with this latest development.

i think Blink 182 are still the biggest Cure fans on the pop charts so it'll probably hilariously be them someday

Based on this year's voting, my fear is that Blink will get in before the Cure.

the only way I can forgive this crew of cowards from not voting for Donna Summer is if they ask her to sing "Enough is Enough" with the Chili Peppers backing her.

Adding to rage: Eric B & Rakim were passed over.

seriously though, One Hot Minute should be enough to keep anyone out of any type of Hall of Fame, even if you DID also record Freaky Styly

I read somewhere that Jann Wenner successfully lobbied for a modification of the bylaws so that Kings of Leon can get in on the first ballot.

"Disco sucks" lives, still. Unbelievable. Especially considering the rhythmic undertow of the Chili Peppers' recent radio hits. Who says Neil Diamond and Billy Joel are Rock and Roll but Donna and Chic aren't?

Still no Rush :(

Todd

Why is Freddie King an "early influence"? His first record came out in 1960.

I guess b/c he's a bluesman? So he's not himself considered "ROCK AND ROLL," but Keith Richards owned his records.

xpost

It seems like Rush is never going to make the list, so the Hall of Fame is essentially meaningless.

is Rush THE most canonical '70s AOR classic rock band that hasn't been inducted? there's gotta be others, right?

Black artists only get to be "influences", not actual hall of famers themselves. I mean, ffs, this white-washing of rock history by RS is hardly surprising at this point, but the more I think about Chic and Eric B and Rakim getting snubbed the more annoyed I get. Of course the safe white rappers from the 80s would get inducted first.

Black Sabbath - xpost

I guess b/c he's a bluesman? So he's not himself considered "ROCK AND ROLL," but Keith Richards Eric Clapton owned his records.

Fixed. Freddie basically invented EC, and the hall luvs them some EC.

xxpost

Kiss is another glaring ommission.

NAGL for the HOF when 5/7 white artists were inducted, compared with 1/5 multiracial or black artists.

(I am counting GNR as multiracial b/c of Slash.)

(Oh, and Kirk Hammett, too.)

Black Sabbath - xpost

They were inducted in 2006.

super awesome that the Small Faces/Faces are making it

Yeah, I'm not sure what I was thinking. I remember them being a notable omission for awhile though.

(xpost)

I love that they waited til after Kirshner died to honor him.

Kiss is another glaring ommission.

"Kiss is not a great band, Kiss was never a great band, Kiss never will be a great band, and I have done my share to keep them off the ballot." -- Dave Marsh

dave marsh otm

"the red hot chili peppers, on the other hand..."

pointing out that the HOF (or 'rock' itself as a cultural institution) privileges white people seems almost too obvious to talk about but in a year where two of the big inductees are the Beastie Boys and the Red Hot Chili Peppers it probably is a good time to force the issue (xpost

Yeah, but see, I think Kiss is actually like the perfect band for that circus anyway. Seriously though, they were hugely influential and even though I think their music was mediocre at best, I can get behind them deserving to be in there for their cultural legacy.

is Rush THE most canonical '70s AOR classic rock band that hasn't been inducted? there's gotta be others, right?

Kiss
Cheap Trick
Deep Purple
Steve Miller Band
Guess Who
REO Speedwagon
Badfinger
Bad Company
Foreigner
Journey

(Last two arguably better described as '80s bands.)

Exactly, those two bands getting in are why it makes it harder for me to swallow the Eric B & Rakim and Chic snubs.

(xpost)

I feel like Chic will eventually get Ron Santo'd in. Hopefully Nile Rodgers doesn't have to die first.

But maybe Jann Wenner does.

Rush seems more objectively likely and/or 'deserving' of induction than pretty much everyone on jaymc's (very helpful!) list, except maaaaybe Steve Miller and Deep Purple?

You'd think that even the HOF can justify its aversion to disco and black artists by including Chic; Nile Rodgers has produced half of the artists in the room or nominated.

guys the HOF is a joke!

"the red hot chili peppers, on the other hand..."

Exactly. Then again, either Dave doesn't have veto power, or he was way outvoted. I can't imagine for the life of me that he would argue RHCP (whom he hasn't expressed much of an interest in) should get in over Chic (whom he loves).

Also, if Dave had that much sway, the MC5 would've gotten in years ago.

woah i didn't know Deep Purple wasn't in! crazy!

been listening to Made in Japan lately goddamn those dudes brought it live.

Rush seems more objectively likely and/or 'deserving' of induction than pretty much everyone on jaymc's (very helpful!) list, except maaaaybe Steve Miller and Deep Purple?

Problem is, Miles Davis' ghost is on the nominating committee. And no way is Miles gonna let that sorry-ass non-playing motherfucker Steve Miller in.

Isn't Steve Miller Band's Greatest Hits still the biggest selling catalogue release of all time? I know it was at some point several years ago. Throw 'em a bone, I guess.

I'm still in a fiery rage about Donna Summer being excluded AGAIN.

Rush seems more objectively likely and/or 'deserving' of induction than pretty much everyone on jaymc's (very helpful!) list, except maaaaybe Steve Miller and Deep Purple?

Yeah, that was just a bunch of names I culled from a work-related spreadsheet. I agree with you, although I would also add Kiss.

Other 70s non-inductees (all 60s rooted):

Nilsson (if Nyro can...)
Grand Funk
Captain Beefheart (if the V.U. & Zappa can...)
Boz Scaggs

I actually thought Beefheart would get the "He's dead? Well, why didn't you say so!" nod this year.

Oh yeah, Grand Funk should've been on my list -- not that I think they deserve induction, but just as part of a catalog of big '70s AOR bands not in the HOF.

Scaggs is a big omission – and he was in the Steve Miller band.

loooool tarfumes

steve miller isn't really that great, why should he be in the hall of fame?

statistically steve miller was in the top 10 in value over replacement guitarist for most of his career

stevermetrics

seriously anyone who gets mad about HOF inductees without consulting the VORG tables is just wasting our time

tbf the people getting angry are Rush and Cure fans

imagine the heartbreak of being a fan of both!

the complex misery of the prog goth

it's like getting your face slapped by an ugly preppy girl in a standard 4/4 rhythm

^^New board description?

ELO's not in either, unless I missed them scanning the list.

it's like getting your face slapped by an ugly preppy girl in a standard 4/4 rhythm

Isn't this Ariel Pink's appeal?

Beastie Boys are an obvious choice, the Red Hot Chili Peppers are of course absurd (not that I completely hate them, and they got better beginning with "Under the Bridge"). I forget who else was up.

BB and RHCP are on pretty equal footing in almost every way imo

lol, RCHP started sucking when they started getting mainstream attention, got briefly better when they went totally mainstream, then settled directly into a comfortable groove of "just bearable enough to sell tons of records" with periodic lapses into "fucking hell no"

I never paid enough attention to them to know the intricacies of their career, but they were better the more melodic they got; the earlier stuff I'd heard--"white dopes on punk" was how Frank Kogan described "Give It Away"--seemed so corny to me.

uh

you know that "Give It Away" and "Under the Bridge" came out at the same time on the same album, which was their 5th, right

because your posts here make it seem like you are putting "Give It Away" into a much earlier bucket than "Under The Bridge"

also their first three albums are the best of their career followed by BSSM; the rest range from tolerable to wholly unforgivable to the point where someone should travel back in time and beat the shit out of the band before they could get into the studio and unleash this aural shitheap upon a world that deserves better

Red Hot Chili Peppers ahead of Chic and Donna Summer is beyond bizarre even for the Hall of Fame. I registered only to express how disturbed I am.

I did know they were on the same album, yes; they miraculously transformed from cliches to sort-of-okay between songs six and seven...I'm not the person to start analyzing the evolution of the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Just making a general point from a non-fan's point of view: putting them in the HOF is silly.

I get kind of I WAS THERE about RHCP because my older brother was buying their albums as they came out and I'd never heard anything like them; the whole thing of skate punks really, really into/influenced by funk bands was really appealing.

No problem, there probably is an age thing here. If I'd been a few years younger when they came along--early '20s, say, instead of late '20s--there's a chance I would have liked them better. (Although funk in general is something I don't often respond to.)

kiedis is definitely in the running for worst male rock vocalist of all time.

yeah it was definitely better when he didn't sing so much, considering that he can't really sing

whereas he was one of the finest MCs of the 1980s

(Although funk in general is something I don't often respond to.)

Not to worry; as soon as ham-fisted Chad Smith joined, RHCP have been about as funky as a faded L.L. Bean catalog.

whereas he was one of the finest MCs of the 1980s

Public Enemy really opened the door for their HOF inclusion

lol whiney blew a gasket a few weeks ago when i dissed chad smith

I remember that, apparently there are layers upon layers to talent to Smith that us non-drumming dudes are hip to.

"of talent"

A backwards baseball hat is not a layer.

Nor is the ability/inclination to play to a click-track.

leave Will Farrell alone, it's impressive that he can balance his movie career with his duties as mediocre RHCP drummer

I wish the rock n roll hall of fame operated like sports hofs and used statistics w/r/t album sales and end of year lists so we could have sabremetric arguments like "did the small faces really have a HOF career?"

Having engaged in a few such arguments over on ILB, all I can say is be careful what you wish for.

http://www.workpump.com/events/2005/images/frustratedGuy-600px.jpg

i'm a drummer! whiney and i usually see eye to eye on drummers more often than not! but then lately he's been all "chad smith is the god, brendan canty can eat a dick"

Feels like the Chili Peppers have been inducted every year for the past decade.

<i>but then lately he's been all "chad smith is the god, brendan canty can eat a dick"</i>

I believe you can have someone committed for observation in at least 38 states for making statements like this.

seriously though, like i think the faces are one of the truly great bands of the 70s, their the rolling stones except you haven't heard every song like 80 zillion times

actually one of the only times whiney really gets under my skin is his fugazi trolling

i'm not even a fugazi megafan, but the idea that chad smith is better than canty is bonkers.

Even NPR is pissed over the Rush snub:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/12/07/143261555/shouldnt-rush-be-in-the-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame

the Canadian trio has sold more than 40 million records and has "more consecutive gold and platinum records than everyone except the Beatles and the Rolling Stones."

I think there's a good case to be made for Small Faces + Faces. I'm not sure if either on its own is strong enough.

holy hell, I didn't realize that EVERY studio album they've released has gone at least gold

seriously though, like i think the faces are one of the truly great bands of the 70s, their the rolling stones except you haven't heard every song like 80 zillion times

^^^ this. Ian MacLagan is a little miffed that the Small Faces and the Faces are being inducted as a single unit -- they were very different bands -- but it'll be great to see Steve Marriott and Ronnie Lane get some long-overdue recognition.

Yeah, I mean its not like its just rabid fanboys yapping about the Rush snub. They've been a pretty powerful touring force for their entire existence as well.

i kinda feel like any musician who can amass a huge fanbase and have a real impact on music history without the approval of shit like the HOF or the Grammys should just wear it like a badge of pride

Well, yeah. The more I look at this thread, the more I'm reminding myself that I don't give a rat's ass about the hall of fame.

rush shouldn't even be a question, they absolutely belong

seriously though, like i think the faces are one of the truly great bands of the 70s, their the rolling stones except you haven't heard every song like 80 zillion times

^^^also minus Mick's occasionally egregious silliness

and yeah it's odd that the Small Faces/Faces are being counted as a single unit

did geddy lee say something mean to dave marsh once?

if bands with changing lineups want to be considered a whole new band they should change their ENTIRE name

What about Iron Maiden? They've sold more records than Rush.

i can't see any reason why iron maiden shouldn't be in.

the dual induction doesn't bother me i guess...just glad they are in, though i'd put faces > small faces

ron wood was such a hot shit guitarist, that's one thing i learned from the faces

and yeah it's odd that the Small Faces/Faces are being counted as a single unit

I read it as a tribute of sorts to Marriott. Humble Pie probably won't ever be inducted, and to induct the Faces is also to induct all of the Small Faces except for Marriott.

(also, the Faces first record, first step, was released under the name Small Faces in the US)

Iron Maiden absolutely deserve to be in. Didn't mention them earlier because they aren't really a 70s bamd.

“I called my dad and he cried,” RHCP’s frontman Anthony Kiedis tells Rolling Stone.

"...he was inconsolable that Donna Summer was snubbed again," he continued.

lol

i wonder if anything has ever happened in the history of Red Hot Chili Peppers that has not provoked the members of the band to cry, take off their shirts and hug each other

what a great interview.

One of the cool things about it is that all of the past inductees vote. So, I don't know, Paul McCartney had the chance to vote for you.

I have an absolute smile on my face while you say that.

"You didn't let me finish. Paul McCartney had the chance to vote for you, and wrote 'Decent band, shite singer' next to RHCP on the ballot."

Haven't been a Rush fan since high school, but I was in a venerable Toronto steakhouse last week and Geddy Lee (a regular, the waiter said) walked in with his family.

i assume all diners fell to their knees in reverence. as your Canadian constitution commands you.

Always thought they'd be vegetarians for some reason, but I guess Ayn Rand's more of a meat-eating icon.

this is only tangentially related, but just saw this via Richard Thompson's site:

Rolling Stone slips to number 69 in Thompson poll
11/27/2011 (updated 11/28/2011)
Rolling Stone, the popular music and related arts and culture magazine, dropped 50 places in Richard Thompson's annual assessment of periodical publications. When asked to comment on the sudden decrease in popularity, Thompson said, "It was a close-run thing for number 68, but I thought Cheese Gourmet Monthly just edged it for their terrific piece on Blue Wensleydale in the August issue. I placed RS above Woman's Realm, which has had some fairly insipid knitting patterns lately." Rolling Stone were unavailable for comment.

ha

i'm pretty surprised it took Donovan this long to get in, given the 60s bias of the HoF in general.

Yeah, but a lot of people see Donovan as a lightweight.

yeah i spose i guess i felt like he had been critically "re-evaluated" but maybe that's more just in dork record collector circles

All I read was the headline on the original link, so I didn't realize Donovan finally got in. Great--not sure I could make an objectively strong argument for him, but subjectively, in large part because of the way his music has been used in a half-dozen films, I've advocated for him on other threads. One of my favourites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dj5IgoUtp8&feature=related

And yes--I'm a dorky record collector!

(as am I! donovan rules!)

I think we can all agree that Donovan is better than the RHCP

has anyone ever seen this? starring donovan as ... the PIED PIPER.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1NwhVRjyDk

it's terrible

in an ocassionally amazing but mostly boring way

Lester Bangs: "But I can guarantee you one thing: we will never agree on anything as we agreed on the idea that Donovan is better than the Red Hot Chili Peppers."

So to sum up this thread,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBCq8XDgrP0

was hoping that the Cure would get in but knew it was a long shot. Donna Summer should not even be a question at this point. really thought Heart and Joan Jett and The Blackhearts would get in because this is in America. happiest about The Small Faces/The Faces.

Having engaged in a few such arguments over on ILB, all I can say is be careful what you wish for.

― clemenza, Wednesday, December 7, 2011 12:23 PM (2 days ago)

truly the best board on ILX :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCFttHeq1NM
this one doesn't make the greatest hits either but I think it oughta

Something that's neat is that Donovan's Facebook page is a regular one, where he posts and you can go on and comment (as opposed to the fan-club-type page). On his HOF post ("Truly honored"--hey, you're supposed to be British), 107 of us have chimed in with congratulations. (I know he's not exactly newsworthy in 2011, but I wouldn't have thought the total would be so low.)

Faces should get totally drunk before accepting their award.

A piece on Rush's snub, plus this list of others out in the cold:

Devo, X, Love, The Replacements, Motörhead, Roxy Music, Can, Big Star, Cheap Trick, Peter Gabriel, New Order, Joy Division, Thin Lizzy. Link Wray. Dick Dale.

New York Dolls, The Cars, Electric Light Orchestra, Bon Jovi, Gram Parsons, Kraftwerk, The Flaming Lips, The Pogues, Tammi Terrell, Warren Zevon.

Randy Newman, T. Rex, Stevie Ray Vaughan, The Smiths, Los Lobos, Dick Dale, Linda Ronstadt, Hall & Oates, Link Wray, The Monkees, MC5, Deep Purple.

man you could put together a pretty incredible festival of eligible but snubbed bands

I will no longer be sending my contributions...how can Heart not be in there. You just had an exibit devouted to the women of rock n roll yet still do not have arguably the most succesful (and talented) girl led band of all time in there. This is a travesty and and embarrasment. Not only did they have more then a few Top 10 hits but wrote all their own material...that's much more of an accomplishment then many of the women who are already in there.
Mike Trap | Wednesday, December 7: 9:31 a.m.

This blows!! Every year yawl induct some artist that ..although are noteworthy..do not fit the original profile for what the HOF is about.The Beastie Boys i can see,,,GNR..yeah..Laura Nyro? Does anyone remember her who wasnt a fan? What is the problem with NOT inducting THE MONKEES? They were the FIRST band to have a TV show...even if they were a product to begin with..they have had Many hit that continue to be played today...concerts sell out when they tour...come on...get off your high horse asses and give the people what THEY want for a change!!
russell joyner | Wednesday, December 7: 9:36 a.m.

Sad that the Hall of Shame continues to ignore a band that has had numerous consecutive gold & platinum records, and continues to sell out arenas. Guess the Hall of Shame is anti prog rock. Time to induct Rush!
Howard | Wednesday, December 7: 9:51 a.m.

Why does the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame keep passing on bands that should have been in the Hall of Fame a long time ago which are KISS, Rush & Deep Purple. Some of the acts that are in the Hall of Fame are more pop than Rock and Roll (ABBA is a BIG example). Get KISS in the Hall of Fame because they have been more of an influence on Rock and Roll than any that are being inducted next year. In fact, we would not have most bands today if it weren't for KISS. KISS is best and will always be.
George M. Shulock | Wednesday, December 7: 9:59 a.m.

Once again, Jethro Tull has been left out. Amazing. Reminds me of that the Baseball Hall of Fame did to Ron Santo. Are you going to wait for Ian Anderson to die?
David | Wednesday, December 7: 10:05 a.m.

Truly shocked that Link Wray isn't in. I assumed he'd been inducted years -- decades -- ago. That's as blatantly oversighty as it gets.

Yeah, and I thought for some reason that T. Rex was in, too.

Putting aside all the obvious problems with the HOF--pretending for a minute that all the inductees were well chosen--I always figured an American-voted HOF and a British-voted HOF wouldn't be identical. People who'd be in the latter but not the former might include T. Rex, Joy Division, the Jam, Nick Drake, etc. (The Jefferson Airplane would be a counter-example.)

not mentioned in this thread: The Spinners and The Stylistics

Seriously Link Wray not being already in the HOF is crazy.

HALL SO RONG

THAT'S LINK WRAY

THAT'S LINK WRAY

...THAT'S LINK WRAY

not mentioned in this thread: The Spinners and The Stylistics

The Spinners were at least nominated; the Stylistics never even got that far.

Moody Blues, anyone?

The Replacements, Motörhead, Roxy Music, Can, Big Star, Cheap Trick, Peter Gabriel, New Order, Joy Division, Gram Parsons, Kraftwerk, The Flaming Lips, Randy Newman, Heart, T. Rex, Stevie Ray Vaughan, The Smiths

I'm amazed that the above got overlooked for Laura Nyro. If I hadn't read a biography of David Geffen, I would've never heard of Laura Nyro. I couldn't say the same for the rest.

I always get Laura Nyro confused with Rykodisc.

Also, Alan Alda or Aldo Nova.

Alan Thicke or Robin Thicke

Possibly with Christgau's reviews lodged in the back of my mind, I assumed for years that I wouldn't care for Laura Nyro. (As a singer--"Wedding Bell Blues" I've loved forever.) But I quite like Gonna Take a Miracle, which I finally got a few years ago; recently bought Nested at a radio-station sale, and that's good too. I think it's exaggeration to put her in the HOF, but I like those two albums much more than I ever thought I would.

Christmas and the Beads of Sweat is an alltime album for me, but it is hard to argue that Laura Nyro's importance exceeds that of Link Wray, Roxy Music, Deep Purple, etc. etc.

For decades she had to deal with the stigma of having been booed at Monterey Pop, despite the fact that she wasn't. No one knows where this myth started, but it stuck with her even years after her death.

Will Roxy Music ever get in? I know they're not as innovative and influential as the RHCP...(eye roll)

At this rate Duran Duran will get in before either Chic or Roxy.

Rob Sheffield is at Rolling Stone...

The Bee Gees got in before the Spinners, so yeah, it's a safe (and fucking depressing) assumption that Duran Duran will get in before Chic.

there are analogies and there are just random names thrown around as if they have any concrete relationship to each othere