It's 1973, it's almost dinnertime, I'm 'avin' 'oops. (Life on Mars Series 2)

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
To stop derailing the Doctor Who thread.

http://avsporinger.net/~anne/blogg/genehunt1973.jpg

Theories, observations, pictures of Gene Hunt, whatever.

BUT NO SPOILERS.

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Monday, 12 February 2007 21:42 (seventeen years ago) link

New series is starting in the uk? Wonder when we'll get it.

Ruud Haarvest (KenL), Monday, 12 February 2007 21:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Words would be hard pressed to describe how excited I am about this.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Monday, 12 February 2007 21:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Please tell me this show does not involve sex with oops.

The Many Faces of Gordon Jump (Leon), Monday, 12 February 2007 21:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Our house has just decided that in honour of the start of the new series, we are having spaghetti hoops, fish fingers, Smash, and a nice bottle of Black Tower for our dinner.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Monday, 12 February 2007 21:53 (seventeen years ago) link

Rats, I have been invited out for dinner tomorrow eve. I'm sure it will be torrentable. Roll on the BBC on demand service.

Ed (dali), Monday, 12 February 2007 21:53 (seventeen years ago) link

that os going a little far.

Ed (dali), Monday, 12 February 2007 21:53 (seventeen years ago) link

UKn0v4 announced some time ago they wouldn't be hosting any S2 t0rr3nts, because the DVD comes out on 2nd April.

I am not a crappy security guard on L O S T (much_aldo_about_nothing), Monday, 12 February 2007 22:38 (seventeen years ago) link

You can get it On Demand if you have ntl (which I'm guessing you don't). Hurrah!

I am as excited as I was about L O S T and Heroes (i.e. very).

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Monday, 12 February 2007 22:40 (seventeen years ago) link

UKn0v4 announced some time ago they wouldn't be hosting any S2 t0rr3nts, because the DVD comes out on 2nd April.

This means I'll have to wait for whenever BBC America decides to start airing this season of "Life On Mars" and that when they finally do, I'll only ever get to see the edited-for-commercials version. :(

Phoenix (is still) Dancing (krushsister), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 07:06 (seventeen years ago) link

UKn0va is not the only t0rr3nt site

Ed (dali), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 07:08 (seventeen years ago) link

Agreed, I was just pointing out it wouldn't be on most people's site of choice for UK TV.

I am not a crappy security guard on L O S T (much_aldo_about_nothing), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 07:57 (seventeen years ago) link

:) (Though I'm still at the beginner to_rr_ent level and thus only know a few sites, U_Kno_va being one of the few.)

Phoenix (is still) Dancing (krushsister), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 08:17 (seventeen years ago) link

Anyway, back to LOM discussion.

Phoenix (is still) Dancing (krushsister), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 08:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Is this tonight then? Or does it clash with Bolton vs Arsenal?

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 09:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Will John Sims get called a QUITTER a la Ecclestone for jumping ship and moaning about the long hours/spending time away from his family/typcast/blah blah ?

DavidM (DavidM), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 09:48 (seventeen years ago) link

> Or does it clash with Bolton vs Arsenal?

it clashes with CSI and Never Did Me No Harm (on ch4 where 4 families take all the electronic toys away from their kids for a couple of weeks. which is kinda like life on mars in it's own way. or the Amish sketch on Fist Of Fun). luckily it doesn't clash with Dog Borstal.

they didn't have video recorders in 1973 either...

koogs (koogs), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 10:05 (seventeen years ago) link

I wish I could see Dog Borstal. I like programmes with dogs in them. My current favourite programme is the Dog Whisperer.

Will John Sims get called a QUITTER a la Ecclestone for jumping ship and moaning about the long hours/spending time away from his family/typcast/blah blah ?

Does he do this? I never read interviews with actors anymore. None of them has anything interesting to say except Paul Bettany and Hugh Laurie, who both at least have the good grace to continue to be pleased that they don't actually have to work a proper job.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 11:03 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't think this series has that much mileage in it so if it was Simm saying he didn't want to do a third series I wouldn't be surprised if the creators were relieved in the 'oh good now we don't have to stretch things out more than we ought to'.

resumo impetus (blueski), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 11:09 (seventeen years ago) link

yes, i fear that any more than two series would be wrong. did anyone see the wee 20-minute "making of life on mars" thing that was on the other week? andrew collins in the pub with the writing team? they claimed they knew exactly how and when it was all going to end, etc. i'm not convinced.

i'm looking forward to this but our TV reviewer says it's a bit shit; a lot of the spark has gone.

grimly fiendish (simon), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 11:22 (seventeen years ago) link

It's kind of a shame they even pushed it to two series, in my opinion. It could have been one of the greats if they'd just left it alone and had him go back at the very end of series one.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 11:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Ashes To Ashes, people.

I am not a crappy security guard on L O S T (much_aldo_about_nothing), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 11:57 (seventeen years ago) link

i still refuse to accept that that is real

as discussed everywhere on the internet and in pubs, will they do an early 90s spin-off called 'Miracle Goodnight'?

resumo impetus (blueski), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 12:29 (seventeen years ago) link

First one was a little meh. Second one was much better. Man though, John Simm ate all the pies while they were away.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 23:01 (seventeen years ago) link

"Haven't you ever heard of softly softly?"
Yes, but I prefer Z Cars"

DavidM (DavidM), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 23:06 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh, good, I'm glad it wasn't just me who watched two of them! I'll be out next Tuesday though, so I had to. Ridiculous, obviously, but yeah, I love this.

Not too sure about all new touchy feely hugglez Gene Hunt though.

(massive points off for Sam's invention of the stinger - bit reminiscent of Gary "Goodnight Sweetheart" Sparrow claiming to have written the entire Beatles back catalogue during WWII)

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 23:12 (seventeen years ago) link

The first ep was quite good, on a par with the first series which I quite liked rather than loved.

bit reminiscent of Gary "Goodnight Sweetheart" Sparrow claiming to have written the entire Beatles back catalogue during WWII

That was the only good joke I ever saw in Goodnight Sweetheart!

Chap (chap), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 23:24 (seventeen years ago) link

I prefer to see it as being reminiscent of Marty McFly inventing rock'n'roll.

I had to watch both as next week I'll be seeing Pan's Labyrinth at the picture house (which is like something outta 1973 itself).

DavidM (DavidM), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 23:26 (seventeen years ago) link

I had to watch both because, you know, there they were.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 23:32 (seventeen years ago) link

You'll regret that at 9 o'clock next Tuesday, you know. We weren't going to, then I remembered I'll be at Celtic Park next Tuesday, so, y'now, I *had* to.

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 23:36 (seventeen years ago) link

Perhaps I shall just watch it again. I'm *that* mad.

Okay, okay, I'm not. You're right. Dammit.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 23:43 (seventeen years ago) link

We need a BBC4 spoiler policy, or my name isn't Hyde 2612.

I am not a crappy security guard on L O S T (much_aldo_about_nothing), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 23:47 (seventeen years ago) link

But it isn't, your name is CRAPPY SECURITY GUARD ON L O S T, despite your screen name protestations to the contrary.

Erm, are we all BBC4ing then? I can't next week, so I'll be behind and IT'S MY THREAD GODAMMIT SO DON'T SPOIL IT FOR ME *LALALALALA*

Ach, I don't know. I just meant no spoilers from whoever was tootling about on the Doctor Who thread going "haha, I know what happens in the last episode".

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 23:52 (seventeen years ago) link

If anyone comes over here and tells us what happens in the last episode, they're getting a boot in the Gene Hunt.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 23:53 (seventeen years ago) link

HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE LAST EPISODE OF THE DOCTOR WHO SERIES (you know, the one with John Simm in it SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH IT'S A SEKRIT).

I am not a crappy security guard on L O S T (much_aldo_about_nothing), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 23:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh, OK. Still, what accentmonkey said.

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 00:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, I am all stupid mad excited about NEW WAYS of communication between 1973 and 2006/7. The future is phoning him! No scary test card girl (yet)! Both eps had crossovers with people who knew future-Sam! Cor!

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 00:17 (seventeen years ago) link

I think I preferred stronger sci-fi kick of episode 1 to the more straightforward policer of ep.2.
Saying that I liked the way the black charecter was handled, with him having to use Charlie Williams-type humour to diffuse the racialist tension in the office etc, as well as the more inexplicable moments like those two twins on the bicycle. And the Softly Softly gag.

I could be imagining it but this series feels more authentically '70s' than the last. What I mean, mainly, is: there seems to be a lot more smoking/rooms thick with ciggie smoke.

DavidM (DavidM), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 00:22 (seventeen years ago) link

My housemate, the one who has never heard of Geoffrey Chaucer, wondered if the twins on the bicycle were the Kray twins.

I am surprised some people can even follow Life on Mars.

And, is there some kind of BBC law that Marc Warren has to make an appearance in every single drama series? Not that I don't like him, but I don't have to look at him all the time.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 08:13 (seventeen years ago) link

See, this is the first time I've seen Marc Warren in one of these things and not spent the entire time getting annoyed at his Marc Warren-ness. We went "oh look it's Marc Warren" then sort of forgot he was Marc Warren.

(there were hints of sci-fi elements in ep 2, with Glen thinking he knew Sam Tyler's name, but not where from - he knew he'd come from "Hyde" though...I'm pretty sure "Hyde" is going to be something other than an area of Manchester)

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 08:35 (seventeen years ago) link

I find the Hyde references slightly off-putting because they remind me of Harold Shipman.

I assume they're meant to be a Robert Louis Stevenson reference though. Hyde = the monster lurking in Sam's subconscious.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 08:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Ooh, good one! See also (sort of) Gene reference to Sam's old mentor being Frankenstein because he'd created a monster...

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 08:39 (seventeen years ago) link

What a load of rubbish.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 08:46 (seventeen years ago) link

The programme, or our theories?

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 08:47 (seventeen years ago) link

I enjoyed these two a great deal more than I was expecting! More double one-handed punches in each bastard episode please you bastards.

Bastard Sarah (Science of Unforunate Events), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 09:32 (seventeen years ago) link

The programme, sorry. I'm sure the theories are sound.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 09:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Mind you, I only watched about ten minutes.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 09:52 (seventeen years ago) link

I enjoyed these two a great deal more than I was expecting! More double one-handed punches in each bastard episode please you bastards.

Yeah, who doesn't love "you are surrounded by armed BASTARDS!"

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 10:02 (seventeen years ago) link

s02e01 was the first i've seen. i'm not saying rubbish, but it didn't compel me.

if they do this '80s one, i have a pitch: why not the yorkshire moors in the '60s?

temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 10:03 (seventeen years ago) link

I haven't watched ep 2 yet, so not too many spoilers please!

("you are surrounded by armed BASTARDS!" was on the trailer, though)

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 10:11 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm surprised it's not on the police recruiting poster, to be honest.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 10:13 (seventeen years ago) link

I picked up on the [Mr] Hyde reference, but I wasn't sure what the twins were about; I wondered briefly if it might be some oblique Alice in Wonderland ref, but I reckoned that it was mostly just to signal that reality was askew.
I didn't realise LoM was littered with sly literary/cultural references (aside from The Sweeney and the obvious), and that I should be looking out for them, rewarding myself as I ticked them off. Blimey.

DavidM (DavidM), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 10:18 (seventeen years ago) link

i wish i'd watched the second ep as well. maybe tonight; got it taped. (or whatever the digital equivalent of taping is. didn't alba agonise over this for ages?)

the first one was a lot better than i expected, anyway: deftly handled time-slip spookiness, people being thrown off roofs and a nice little cliffhanger at the end. couldn't ask for much more. i'm becoming obsessed with the architecture and design of the police station: it's so terrifyingly, gloriously brutalist. does anyone know any more about it? i'm assuming they created a set, but it must have been based on something; i'd love to know what.

good to see they'd got proper seventies allegros this time too, not the eighties models they had last time :)

philip glenister popped up again on BBC4 narrating "timeslip", about the three-day week. he is obviously now the authentic voice of the seventies.

grimly fiendish (simon), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 11:02 (seventeen years ago) link

the police station is actually stopford house council offices in stockport.

and parts of ancoats where i used to play.

(wikipedia has a list)

koogs (koogs), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 11:29 (seventeen years ago) link

i'm becoming obsessed with the architecture and design of the police station

You think you're bad. I spent most of the second episode trying to work out if they'd put new seatbelts in the car, because the seatbelt didn't have that lovely slight slackness around the top that ye olde seatbelts used to have.

Plus there was one lamp that Marc Warren had in his office that I really wanted.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 11:32 (seventeen years ago) link

how did they build the roof at such an angle to the walls (or vice versa if you like)

BounceBounceBounceBounceBounceBounceBounce (bounce), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 11:34 (seventeen years ago) link

?

BounceBounceBounceBounceBounceBounceBounce (bounce), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 11:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Some observations:

The events of the first episode last night introduced some interesting (YMMV) issues wrt plot and continuity. What it appears to establish is that the events of 1973 can alter the events in the present day, but that any 'end state' will remain. From yesterday, for example, Marc Warren's character is originally being investigated by Tyler and has raped and killed his wife. He then puts Sam in hospital (possibly) and is torturing him in hospital. After being put away in the mental home in 1973 he still tortures Sam in the present but this is because he has escaped from the mental home. But it does also mean he can't have arranged the 'accident' that put Sam in hospital because he wasn't there to do so and his vendetta was of a different nature anyway. But the 'accident' ('end state' 1) still happens so Sam is in the hospital, and the torture ('end state' 2) still happens, but with different motivation.

This, however, introduces problems. There is now no sense of relief, or resolution, to S1E1. In fact, it makes the whole issue far more complex. We now know that only the 'end states' of there being a serial killer and Sam's girlfriend going missing are retained. Sam's actions in ensuring the killer is kept in mental hospital and not released to go on the killing spree actually mean that in the present day the case has completely changed - it must now be some other event that has no relation to the events in 1973 - and so Sam has achieved nothing other than corrupt his morals. A similar issue exists with the second episode last night, in that all we can say for sure is that the 'end state' position of his boss dying is all that is retained. It may well be that he carried on the Charlie Williams act for the rest of his career after perceiving Sam's "advice" to be racist bullying and was promoted through some anti-discrimination drive, but the important bit is that we don't and never can know, and neither does Sam. So again, the events of the episode achieve nothing.

Completely separately, Hyde is entirely possibly from Stevenson as pointed out above. The fact Gene Hunt seems to be exactly the opposite of Sam at the outset, and everything he despises in a policeman, but by the current stage they seem to realise they need to work symbiotically, and are stronger together than apart and can learn from each other, seems thematically strongly linked. Let's not also forget the etymology of Hyde is from 'hide'.

On a different topic, these rumours about Ashes To Ashes confuse things massively. If true, this means this is a real 1973 (because a spin off happening in the main character's head when the main character no longer is there is faintly ridiculous) and Sam has somehow actually moved there in time - causing issues around things like the TV talking to him , unless one of my wild arsed theories is right. And without further ado...

Wild arsed speculation and theorising:

1) The guy on the other end of Hyde 2612 is a doctor in the present day

This is possible, I suppose, but I don't know about the likes of deep hypnosis on people in PVS to comment to fully. Is it credible that it could be concluded that you could recover from PVS but there are pychological barriers that need removing first - "the rules"?

2) The guy on the other end of Hyde 2612 is Sam's dad in the present day

We don't know anything about what happened after the end of S1, or even where Sam's dad is in the present day. The actual physical redemption of his dad (as opposed to the psychological one in S1) may be the trigger to his return, but Sam may have to change the interim before the 'end state' in that scenario to allow this redemption to happen. This would certainly provide a tidy thematic link between the two series (or the finales of them) and would satisfy a relatively standard TV trope.

3) The guy on the other end of Hyde 2612 is Sam, post PVS

This is, I think, the most likely. Sam has recovered to a degree, but 'remembers' what he went through in order to 'escape' out of 1973 and wants to help Sam get there, but certain things have to happen to allow for it - "the rules". A possible pointer to this is the issues around Sam's eyesight and migraines we have seen in this series - Hyde 2612 is, with a small bit of geographic jiggery-pokery, the telephone number of Stockoprt Hospital for the Blind (according to google). Sam loses his sight while in PVS and tries to avoid making the same mistakes in 1973 that he thinks leads to it?

4) Sam is really in 1973, and is actually mad

This would be my preferred ending, but it's possibly too downbeat. The whole thing about the future was a dream, or a psychotic episode (possibly an epileptic fit of sorts?) which he recovered from when he is discovered in S1E1 - or perhaps this was the "incident in Hyde" that was talked about last night - and all the other items (test card girl, radio broadcasts, telephone calls) are just symptoms of his madness.

Thoughts?

I am not a crappy security guard on L O S T (much_aldo_about_nothing), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 13:47 (seventeen years ago) link

He can't really be in 1973. For one thing, his haircut is all wrong. I know that sounds like a simple thing, but when every other detail of the show's production has so much care in it, there is no way the lead character would have a 2006 haircut unless it was deliberately intended to mark him out as different.

Also, I do not think you can recover from PVS. I think that technically he must be in a coma, and people do think that you can communicate with people in comas. PVS (I think, but I am not a doctor) means you have no brain activity, which he must do, or nobody would be trying to communicate with him.

But it does also mean he can't have arranged the 'accident' that put Sam in hospital because he wasn't there to do so and his vendetta was of a different nature anyway. But the 'accident' ('end state' 1) still happens so Sam is in the hospital, and the torture ('end state' 2) still happens, but with different motivation.

I sincerely hope the people writing this programme are putting as much thought into these questions as you are.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 13:55 (seventeen years ago) link

What it appears to establish is that the events of 1973 can alter the events in the present day, but that any 'end state' will remain.

I don't understand, this just sounds like "you can change some stuff except sometimes you can't". Is there anything special about the "end state" facts?

Also, I do not think you can recover from PVS. I think that technically he must be in a coma, and people do think that you can communicate with people in comas. PVS (I think, but I am not a doctor) means you have no brain activity, which he must do, or nobody would be trying to communicate with him.

Oh, no, you can! My favourite news story of the last few years

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 14:08 (seventeen years ago) link

His haircut is all wrong, yes, but maybe it's supposed to be a MENKO HAIRCUT. I suspect he is not in 1973, but it is nice to speculate.

I must admit, my main reason for assuming he is PVS and not in a coma is the issue over his mother being asked to turn off his life support. I was under the impression that you couldn't do this legally in Britain without PVS being declared and a year having elapsed (NHS Direct website seems to support this, and also that it can be recovered from). It says:

Vegetative state is caused as a result of severe injury to the part of the brain that controls thought and personality. A person in a vegetative state may seem to be awake and reflex responses may remain, but it is widely accepted that they have no awareness of their surroundings and that they are incapable of feeling mental distress or physical pain. It is common after someone has been in a coma.
There is no treatment that can stop the effects of a vegetative state, but some people do make a recovery.
However, many people will only gain some awareness, or are permanently brain damaged if they do recover.
A person who has been in a vegetative state for more than one month is said to be in a persistent vegetative state. This is then considered permanent after a year. Recovery becomes less likely the longer the person is in a vegetative state.
The BMA recommends that there should be a high standard of nursing care, good nutrition and stimulation should be available to people in a vegetative state.
After about a year, doctors may decide that the person's condition is irreversible, and that keeping them alive is not in their best interests and consideration may be given to withdrawal of treatment. In England, any decision to stop a person's care will need to be made by the courts.

This seems to imply to me Sam has left his coma, but is unresponsive to anything at the hospital. That said, I can't find anything on when you can turn off support in a coma so it's conceivable the same rules could apply (although it's be a wonder of writing to show him recover from a coma he's been in for over a year without any vegetative state effects).

I suspect it is just me putting this much thought in. ;__;

I am not a crappy security guard on L O S T (much_aldo_about_nothing), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 14:18 (seventeen years ago) link

If he's really in 73 he has to have travelled back from the present, or have Nostradamus-like predictive powers - he can't just be mad (unless everything that has happened in the real world since then has just been a product of his dementia, which seems unlikely).

Chap (chap), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 14:18 (seventeen years ago) link

But one expert in neurological rehabilitation said it was possible the patients had a different condition.

Not PVS! I only say this because I abstracted an article recently in which a neurologist was basically complaining about not being allowed to do things like take blood donations or organs from people in PVS, given that there was NO WAY they were ever going to come out of it and people should just stop kidding themselves. Although it could be just semantics.

I am paraphrasing, of course.

I don't understand, this just sounds like "you can change some stuff except sometimes you can't". Is there anything special about the "end state" facts?

Well, you know how in a different programme, or in Back to the Future, or some other time travel meet up scenario, when Sam had changed the past, the bloke would most likely just melt away in the future. But he didn't. He was still there, torturing Sam, but he got there by a different route than the original one. Meaning he can't change the end state, just the means. I found that pretty bleak, actually.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 14:19 (seventeen years ago) link

with blokey coming back as a mental patient to kill sam -- was this a 'totally random' attack of a madman, or did sam in fact set in train this course of events, making him an enemy, and the attack one of revenge?

temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 14:21 (seventeen years ago) link

This seems to imply to me Sam has left his coma, but is unresponsive to anything at the hospital.

I don't know. Again, it's possible the writers are not thinking as hard about his condition as you/we are. However, it occurs to me that he must be showing some signs of reaction or brain activity in order (as you say) for them to keep his life support switched on, and for them to keep trying to get through to him.

But who is trying to get through to him? If it turns out to be Whoopi Goldberg, I shall be vexed.

with blokey coming back as a mental patient to kill sam -- was this a 'totally random' attack of a madman, or did sam in fact set in train this course of events, making him an enemy, and the attack one of revenge?

Right! That's what I found bleak about this. Sam caused the attack by changing the time line.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 14:23 (seventeen years ago) link

Okay, here's the original Guardian story that I was thinking about. I mean, technically anyone you can wake up isn't PVS because if you can wake them up it isn't persistent, but your doctor is being quite unscientific by saying "we can't wake people with PVS" when it's such a sweeping term in the first place.

Meaning he can't change the end state, just the means. I found that pretty bleak, actually.

Yeah, but he has changed the end state to an extent - there are psych ward records somewhere that weren't there before, for example.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:26 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost

time travel, eh? fraught with difficulties.

fwiw, i think the best way to deal with these issues is just to accept them. i mean, let's not forget: time travel doesn't actually exist. therefore the parameters by which it "works" and by which events are changed are defined solely by the writers. so let's just roll with it, shall we?

episode two was, by any standards, absolutely fucking brilliant. genuinely powerful drama. philip glenister was quite, quite staggering. indeed, i'm considering running my department at work (roughly the same size as the detective team) in a gene hunt stylee :)

grimly fiendish (simon), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:29 (seventeen years ago) link

If he's really in 73 he has to have travelled back from the present, or have Nostradamus-like predictive powers

Haven't watched Series 1 since it was on, but he definitely told his mother to put money on Red Rum for the National and I'm pretty convinced he told someone about Hillsborough or something as well? So I think we can probably discount the he's not actually from the future theory - some things he's said go beyond just imagining what the enlightened future is like.

(OK, we thought he was going to get Marc Warren sent down for life but with parole he'd be out and gunning for him by 2006/7 anyway. I like the "change the means but the outcome remains" thing)

You think you're bad. I spent most of the second episode trying to work out if they'd put new seatbelts in the car

Ha, one of the other things that marks Sam out as not of the 70s is that he puts his seatbelt on at all. I remember when I was of primary school age in the late 70s/early 80s and finding it really weird if anyone asked me to wear a seatbelt in their car.

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Thursday, 15 February 2007 19:14 (seventeen years ago) link

indeed, i'm considering running my department at work (roughly the same size as the detective team) in a gene hunt stylee :)

Please to blog every day of such an experiment, also in a gene hunt stylee.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Thursday, 15 February 2007 19:46 (seventeen years ago) link

I sort of imagine that grimly does this already.

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Thursday, 15 February 2007 19:55 (seventeen years ago) link

I imagine him more as:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1940000/images/_1944248_jameson_pa.jpg

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Thursday, 15 February 2007 19:57 (seventeen years ago) link

This is the picture I *should* have used:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/lifeonmars/backstage/assets/pc_wallpaper/08_800x600.jpg

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Thursday, 15 February 2007 20:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Ha! Where's that from?

We came up with an idea for a new 1970s-style claymation children's show. Battlestar Galactington.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Thursday, 15 February 2007 20:07 (seventeen years ago) link

ailsa and accentmonkey, you are both v amusing. and i'm kinda flattered, on both counts.

Please to blog every day of such an experiment, also in a gene hunt stylee.

dA yy A zz Ay ^H^H dd

[sound of computer being smashed]

RIGHT. PUB!

grimly fiendish (simon), Thursday, 15 February 2007 20:11 (seventeen years ago) link

accentmonkey, it's from the wallpapers section of the BBC Life on Mars website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/lifeonmars/backstage/downloads.shtml). I'm really wanting to get Gene Hunt on my phone now.

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Thursday, 15 February 2007 20:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Real Fans will already know that these two have been doing the bedtime story on CBeebies, yesterday and the day before, Simm first, then the other one.

This seems to be part of some new BBC subliminal marketing campaign, because "Matt" out of Five Days was on when that serial was running.

None of these professional thespians, however, was as good as Lawro at telling the story.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 16 February 2007 08:02 (seventeen years ago) link

who is the bloke on the left?

koogs (koogs), Friday, 16 February 2007 08:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Are you at work, Koogs?

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 16 February 2007 08:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Someone from an upcoming episode. Helpful, eh?

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Friday, 16 February 2007 08:36 (seventeen years ago) link

why no annie cartwright wallpapers / screensavers / gubbins?

(yes, pjm, in especially early because i have things to do and nobody here knows how to write a build script that actually builds. have spent two days just trying to get application to compile.)

koogs (koogs), Friday, 16 February 2007 08:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Cos she's a burd, innit?

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Friday, 16 February 2007 08:56 (seventeen years ago) link

(clock screensaver is nice idea badly executed. mute button mutes your entire system even the streams you are trying to listen to. clock should've been scaled to fit screen as well, rather than just plonking itself in the middle.)

koogs (koogs), Friday, 16 February 2007 08:57 (seventeen years ago) link

guy on the phone is a dibble from heartbeat who is talking from 4 years in the past!!!

BounceBounceBounceBounceBounceBounceBounce (bounce), Friday, 16 February 2007 10:04 (seventeen years ago) link

I like the clock screensaver a lot, except that, like everyone else, my screen just goes blank nowadays instead of needing to be saved. It's the icecaps, innit?

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Friday, 16 February 2007 10:11 (seventeen years ago) link

The bloke on the left in the picture is the nonce Gene Hunt is seen bashing at the end of the Camberwick Green trailer for this series.

I am not a crappy security guard on L O S T (much_aldo_about_nothing), Friday, 16 February 2007 16:50 (seventeen years ago) link

One more bit of wild arsed theorising, and maybe the one that has been staring us in the face since the very beginning.

Gene Hunt

What if this is literal, that the events from the last episode in Series 1 have convinced Sam that his dad (who we now know is a wrong 'un0 might not be his dad after all. What if his dad was actually a policeman, giving Sam his love of the the law, and the good DCI is a clue on the 'hunt' for his 'genes'. The voice of Hyde 2621 could be his real dad, who his mum has brought out of the woodwork since the coma, or possibly the phone calls are a submerged memory of conversations he had with him when he was a kid - that would fit in with "I have to phone you, we have to stick to the rules" - in much the same way S1 had a submerged memory surface about the last time he saw the man he thinks is his dad. There's also the wordplay link between hunt and hide.

I'm liking this more and more. There's also potential for Ashes To Ashes through this solution, following the 'real' Gene Hunt and not the one in Sam's mind.

I am not a crappy security guard on L O S T (much_aldo_about_nothing), Friday, 16 February 2007 17:10 (seventeen years ago) link

i couldn't be arsed to get through this, in the end. it's not terrible but it doesn't really grab you by the nads. john harris was kind of right that hunt would be a lot more racist than he is in the show. is john simm a cop in the present too? unusually PC for a police, if so.

temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:17 (seventeen years ago) link

that pesky harris, always demanding more racism on tv...

why is there not an episode on next week? i couldn't be bothered to watch the next one but quite enjoyed this'n.

resumo impetus (blueski), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:23 (seventeen years ago) link

1: not necessarily, and 2: not necessarily.

DavidM (DavidM), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:24 (seventeen years ago) link

it's man u vs... reading, steve.

temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:25 (seventeen years ago) link

^xp

DavidM (DavidM), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:26 (seventeen years ago) link

i think the voice of Hyde 2621 is a government dude. how mean of him to not help Sam or give him more info tho. perhaps he was eating his dinner at the time.

the Camberwick Green trailer for this series.
i enjoyed this enough to think that it might be nice if someone made an...'adult-orientated' animated series in this style, but with real heart, clever humour etc. because the narration+characters unable to make sound aspect shouldn't be the preserve of kids, perhaps.

resumo impetus (blueski), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:32 (seventeen years ago) link

did they really not have decent files in 1973 so someone could check up on Tyler's history in Hyde only to find...nothing?

resumo impetus (blueski), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:34 (seventeen years ago) link

I saw this last night for the first time (t'was on when I had something to do involving leaving t'house)

It's very good but a bit pleased with itself really. (story involved irish/explosives/"The irish'd never blow up a pub, name me a paddy that doesn't like a drink" ahaha we see what you did there! Also, Chunky kitkat were not available in the seventies and JSims character would know that!

M Grout (Mark Grout), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:37 (seventeen years ago) link

I have missed both episodes of this new series, because I KEEP FORGETTING TO WATCH TV! I am fule. I don't suppose it's repeated on any other BBC channel on another night, is it??

C J (C J), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:50 (seventeen years ago) link

It was on BBC4 last night.

I guess it will be, again.

M Grout (Mark Grout), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:51 (seventeen years ago) link

The BBC2 episode was excellent, very well plotted.

Chap (chap), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 13:18 (seventeen years ago) link

BBC1, rather.

Chap (chap), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 13:20 (seventeen years ago) link

Wouldn't it be a fab job to be a researcher for this?! They came round to work to do the research for the Post Office, I think they might have borrowed a poster too, cos I did spy one.

vicky (Vicky), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 13:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, Chunky kitkat were not available in the seventies and JSims character would know that!

He does know that but every now and again he forgets himself 'whoops, oh yeah it's 1973 innit, d'oh'.
Didn't like episode 3 as much as the first two.
"Frank Miller"!

DavidM (DavidM), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:05 (seventeen years ago) link

I know this is stretching the metaphor too far but last night I got to thinking "hold on if Sam's other life is "Hyde" then this one is Jeckyll: 1973Sam is the one with the sense of humanity, 200xSam is the debauched monster".

Like I say, metaphor past elastic limit.

Frank Miller?

Also in what sort of crazed world is a chunky kitkat more of a treat than a regular one? I don't pay my license fee to watch such foolishness etc etc.

Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:08 (seventeen years ago) link

Sometimes he seems to make "future" references deliberately - such as in ep 2 where he said he liked reading Dan Brown novels.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:08 (seventeen years ago) link

in what sort of crazed world is a chunky kitkat more of a treat than a regular one

In every sort of crazed world! You loon.

It's Teatime in Buttercup Land (Maaarghk C), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:22 (seventeen years ago) link

there's something about chunky kitkats i don't like tho. it could be their chunkiness, but i do love Yorkies.

question from previous series: why wouldn't Tyler bet on famous sports results?

i was gonna say the woman who plays Annie seems to be becoming worse at acting each week :( she's nearly as bad as the pub landlord.

resumo impetus (blueski), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:31 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost because he hasn't actually travelled back in time, therefore Arsenal lose the cup match etc...

M Grout (Mark Grout), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:33 (seventeen years ago) link

I am forced to the conclusion that it's in fancy media circles that chunky kitkats are considered preferable to normal ones, and this explains why I have never before encountered such madness.

Steve, he went on about Red Rum didn't he?

Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:34 (seventeen years ago) link

does a chunky kitkat actually give you more chocolate or even biscuit than a standard four-finger kitkat? or are they just filled with lots of air, like tennis balls?

Red Rum? Red Rub more like

resumo impetus (blueski), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Winning at 9-1, he was far from rub!

C J (C J), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:38 (seventeen years ago) link

cap'n save-a-horse

resumo impetus (blueski), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:44 (seventeen years ago) link

i guess one good reason to know old sports results is if you get sent back in time. i would suck at it.

but maybe i would get cool points by listening to can and stuff like that.

temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:57 (seventeen years ago) link

> We need a BBC4 spoiler policy, or my name isn't Hyde 2612.
> I am not a crappy security guard on L O S T (aldo.cowpat@gmail.com), February 13th, 2007.

yes, yes we do.

koogs (koogs), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 16:09 (seventeen years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.