fuck a creationist

'Well it has some reference to... *click*'

'Funny you should ask that. There are... *click*'

utterly bonkers, btw

xpost laurel otm

gff these are multiple callers who are mostly teachers at christian schools or parents from the wealthy suburbs of atlanta, i dont think this is a borat style prank

heres the description from our website-

“ROAR! I want to be a DINOSAUR!” sings Francine the cute little blue songbird. Join Francine and her eccentric Auntie Archaeopteryx on a trip back in time where you will come face to face with a T-Rex, Triceratops, Apatosaurs and many, many more awesome swinging, singing dinosaurs. Our stage is almost too small to hold the rollicking giant puppets and rocking songs. And in the end Francine learns a little secret about herself. ROAR! DINOSAURS GALORE!

^^^ UH OH

xpost oh man I want to see this show

oh wait, the show has "educator's guides" and stuff.

Oh, the whole birds->dinosaurs thing. Yep, sounds like evolution to me. The whole "explain that it's based upon scientific consensus" seems to be the best way out.

How can this show NOT be awesome?

haha stence i already thought of the transgender metaphor

(and then disconnect)

to their credit it was not shown

So, there it is. It's confirmed.

to their credit it was not shown

That shit could've been off the chain like her mac n cheese, tho!

xp: yeah, i go with dan's answer. let your super come up with responses to these people.

StanM is on the money. Shit like this is just too depressing.

Simply put, they lived concurrent with man down through the thousands of years of our existence, and they appear to have gone mostly extinct prior to our modern era. Remember that the word "dinosaur" is only about 160 years old. Legends of dangerous reptilian creatures (a.k.a. dragons) have been passed down to us from our ancestors across Europe, from China and the rest of Asia, all over the Americas (North, South & Central), and they're remembered in Africa too. Why should all of these legends/histories (spanning all inhabited continents, mind you!) be trivialized and discounted just to give credence to the temporary theory of evolution? It is important in science to separate the evidence from the interpretation. The evidence is that there have been these large dangerous reptilian creatures. We have bones, recorded history and footprints; we have strong evidence. The interpretation (or belief) that they all died off millions and millions of years ago is in dispute between creationists and evolutionists. And numerous stories in recorded human history of being killed by dragons/dinosaurs and of us banding together to kill them in return (among other important evidence) is clearly on our side ... as creation theory grows stronger each year.

There is good evidence that the Earth is only thousands of years old. In BOOKS, see Dr. Ackerman's It's a Young World After All. The "65 million years" is a recent mental invention. Evolution provides a mental hiding place from our powerful Creator. Evolution claims (theologically) that our God is weak or non-existent. Right? Think about what evolution claims about our origins. Dragons (per the previous FAQ answer) were seen and sometimes fought by our ancestors on all inhabited continents. Our ancestors were honest in recording sightings of large dangerous reptilian creatures. They lived concurrent with man. Humans saw dinosaurs. Sure, stories later became embellished, but the germ of truth that humans and dinosaurs (dragons) lived at the same time remains accurate. They lived in different places ... but at the same time - until the dinosaurs were mostly driven to extinction. (There are still a few living dinos out there, by the way.)

gosh, you know, he's right! someone get the OED on the phone!

Wait, they just say this and then move on?

See, I told you in the previous FAQ there were dragons, there is no way that cannot have convinced you!

The largest dragon (i.e. dinosaur) eggs that we've found to date are about the size of a football. One could fit, for example, a dozen brachiosaurus eggs in the trunk of a car, with room to spare! This also means that recently hatched dragons were not very large. Noah's mission was to preserve each kind of animal. You don't need to find the biggest of each kind. And you don't need each sub-divided species either. Did you know that most modern dog breeds are less than 100 years old? 2 healthy young mutts could preserve the genome of the entire "dog kind" of animals. The Bible uses the word "kind" for the different types of life forms. Horses and zebras can (and have) physically mated producing viable offspring; so have tigers and lions, indicating that they (according to creation theory) probably respectively diverged from the same original stock. Dogs and wolves (though considered quite different by humans today) probably originated from their same "kind" too. There are a few large animals (when fully grown) of course: giraffes, elephants, and T-rexes among them. But the average animal size is about sheep size, i.e. the 3-story Ark was plenty large enough to handle the variety of animal kinds plus lots of food for them. Speciation could descend again from original healthy "mutt" stock to start with. Thinking scientifically about this, it shows incredible variable design, huh?

Dinosaur Adventure Land started as a dream of Dr. Kent Hovind's. Tired of the constant propaganda being spread about evolution through nearly all public state-funded science centers and museums, as though it is a fact, Dr. Hovind decided that it was time to start a Creation Museum, Science Center, and Theme Park that glorified God. Dinosaur Adventure Land opened its doors in October of 2001 bringing in over 4,000 visitors that year. The next year the number of visitors grew to over 10,000 visitors, and then 13,000, and finally in 2004 there were over 17,000 visitors that had toured the park. Dinosaur Adventure Land offers over 80 Activities with both scientific and spiritual lessons.

Our goal is for your visit to leave you tired, smarter and closer to the Lord. There are activities for all ages from 2 to 92. There is a 3 story hands-on Science center in the middle of the park with tons of activities that will keep you busy all day long. The Creation Museum has hundreds of amazing artifacts, that show evidence for creation. Such as, the Ica stones from Peru, showing pictures of men and dinosaurs on them. As well as, a fossilized pickle, charcoal, coconut, and crayon proving that it does not take millions of years to form fossils. About 250 people have their birthdays at Dinosaur Adventure Land each year. You can schedule your next birthday party at Dinosaur Adventure Land, by contacting the bookstore.

Visit Dinosaur Adventure Land online to learn more about our amazing Science Center, Museum, and Theme Park. Play games online and view our gallery of images!

You never even looked in the bottom of that Ark! Have you looked down there? No? Who's gonna clean up that mess down there? That's me! I tell you I've had enough of this stuff. I tell you what I'm gonna do: I'm letting all these animals out, and I'm gonna burn down this Ark, and I'm going to Florida somewhere...

xp: didn't Dinosaur Adventure Land lose its funding or something? One of those fundie young earth creationist parks went under, i think.

fun fact: 'dr' dino got his phd in christian science from a non-accredited christian university

The resulting "super-cold snow" fell near the poles, burying the Mammoths standing up. Ice on the North and South pole cracked the crust of the earth releasing the fountains of the deep, which in turn caused certain ice age effects, namely the glacier effects. Also this made "the earth wobble around for a few thousand years" and it made the canopy collapse that used to protect the earth and opened up the fountains of the deep.

During the first few months of the flood, the dead animals and plants got buried, and became coal if they were plants and oil if they were animals. The last few months of the flood included geological instability, when the plates shifted. This period saw the formation of both ocean basins and mountain ranges and the resulting water run-off caused incredible erosion — Hovind claims that the Grand Canyon was formed in a couple of weeks during this time. After a few hundred years, the ice caps slowly melted back retreating to their current size and the ocean levels increased, creating the continental shelves. The deeper oceans absorbed much of the carbon dioxide in earth’s atmosphere and thus allowed greater amounts of radiation to reach the earth's surface. As a result, human lifespans were shortened considerably in the days of Peleg.

There are scenes of natives adorned with robes and high crowns, similar to the Incas, performing medical procedures on patients. Several depict heart and brain transplants.

The stones are clearly carved depicting people riding dinosaurs and flying reptiles.

There are stones with genetic codes, and the prolongation of life. Blood vessels are shown being reconnected via re-absorption tubes utilizing the natural regeneration of cells.

There are carvings of a cesarean section with acupuncture as a form of anesthesia.

There are telescopes and ancient maps and star maps.

There is a series of four stones show the hemispheres of Earth pointing to the existence of unknown continent's that today remains a part of our collective myth.

God does not believe in atheists
His presence from creation is quite clear
God does not believe in atheists
It takes a fool to tell him he's not here

God believes atheists can get born again
And become a new creation,
But they'd best admit the world around them first
And ask for their salvation
But to only cry, "Recycle!" is the worst

God believes atheists do have certain rights
To seek and search the scriptures
It says, "Come now, let us reason" that's for them
But it doesn't give them reason to
Make up what God is saying
Until it's no true benefit to them

Blee dop, sklee dop, sklee dilly dilly
Bah donna bee on a Saturday night
If that sounded like nonsense to you too,
Those schools have got some books for you

I guess the non-bald Chick dude considers cancer an evolutionary advancement?

This is such terrific reading, for, well, two main reasons: (a) unlike illiterate 16th-century farmers, the scientific visionaries who put this together seriously don't know that equine hybrids are always sterile; plus (b) their grand theory to replace evolution winds up arguing that ... seemingly different species could "respectively diverge from the same original stock?" I mean, seriously:

Dogs humans and wolves apes (though considered quite different by humans today) probably originated from their same "kind" too.

(Also funny: they evidently reject everything science has allowed us to figure out about dinosaur bones except that they were reptilian? I mean, hell, once you're throwing everything else out the window, who's to say they didn't have feathers? Which: Francine is a bird who wants to be a dinosaur and then learns a little secret about herself: I could totally imagine an ugly-duckling kind of thing where someone's like "hey, you're more highly evolved and your species will be around longer, don't sweat it.")

Ethan, have any of the callers gone on about "indoctrination"?

Humans and apes diverging from a common ancestor over millions and millions and millions of years: RIDICULOUS, DO I LOOK LIKE A MONKEY?

yes, except for when it serves their purposes to think that they aren't. fundamentalism as a freaked-out response to (some aspects of) modernity that is completely enabled by and dependent on (other aspects of) modernity is very very similar across the Christian/Muslim divide. I think there just are many similarites between Christianity and Islam anyway, but in response to Karen Armstrong's read on world religions, I think many of them, even if they are available to metaphorical readings, could become fundamentalized, given the state of the world. There are Christians who read the Bible metaphorically, after all.

I'm really sorry you're dealing with this, and what, but we're all going to have to deal with it eventually.

Is that a ginormous "DUH"? Obviously, yes, the line for the pains and pressures of the real world forms to the right, please take your places. But when you've staked your life or sanity on it, well...that's big.

xp yeah, laurel

EWWW! Dragonlance, how tacky! But considering how many ex-fundies I knew from college who'd point to all manner of things with some kinda loose connection to swords 'n' sorcery (sci-fi/D&D/ren fest/creative anachronisms/Norse and Celtic mythology/prog rock) as the stuff that kinda put them on the path to a vision more secular, I think the D&Dishness of this stuff carries within it -- maybe -- something potentially transformative and redeeming.

On the other hand, I've also noticed that Norse & Celtic mythology is really popular with amongst the bathsit racist set, so I may be indulging in wishful thinking.

I always think of it as: if religion is there to shore us up against the idea that the universe is a cold, value-neutral place, then science seems very threatening. Deeply frightening, even. Because the universe is a cold, value-neutral place. This tug of war has always been going on in one way or another. Galileo, etc.

* Batshit (likely)
* Bathist (unlikely but fascinating!)
* Bathist (literal reading, ie "partial to baths")

right, and this board has more than a few of 'em.

This seems really obvious to say, but it seems that a lot of emphasis needs to be on the psychology of these folks. There's a certain mindset that so cannot handle ambivalence of any sort, or any questioning, or any insecurity, that all things must be literal and straightforward. This shit is scary to some folks, so they have to cling to something. We've talked about this on other threads, too, like the one i did about authoritarian societies. The Bible must be read as literally true, even if it's been (mis)translated over the course of several languages, even if the first and second chapters of Genesis has differing versions of Creation, etc etc etc.

I suspect that somebody like Tep has a fair amount to say on this, but he tends to avoid these threads.

(I wonder how the Museum of Natural History deals with this sort of thing -- bet they have a script all laid out already for callers.)

xpost.

Right, but I don't know that it requires a particular sort of self-loathing to get to that point.

If you start downplaying Jesus' divinity or the literally cataloged powers of God the Father, you threaten the authority, the potency of the only pillar holding up their self-acceptance.

Replace "self-acceptance" with "overall sense of meaning in their lives," and I think it still works.

I guess yelling "READ ONE BOOK" wouldn't be polite, would it?

(b) if religion is there to shore us up against the idea that the universe is a cold, value-neutral place -- somewhere inside of this is a subissue, which is the usual belief among fundamentalists that the absence of religion means the absence of values, and a necessary descent into nihilism and greed and depravity. There's no faith that human beings could adopt positive values just on a rational basis, just at face value. (And this is something that plenty of strains of Christianity make a big deal of reinforcing, stressing that we are all stained and evil and fallen without God -- possibly even that you can't be a decent person without God, ten thousand Biblical exceptions aside.)

XP: Whoops, forgot that extra "a"! Curse no mod powers on sandbox.

Nietzsche comes into play here, too, along with the massive historical misreadings given to him.

that's a good question. Islam strikes me as less interested in love than Christianity is, but God's omnipotence and direct involvement in the world is certainly central.

Another question: how can people who have no problem with such a massive, weird abstraction have so much trouble with the idea of geological time?

I.e. most of these folks don't talk too much about usury, or the forgiving of debts every so many years, or ignoring most of that whole "Sermon on the Mount" thing.

I'll give you $20 if you can remember that guy's name.

His name is That Douchebag. Pay up.

xpost to Laurel.

I believe our beloved Prime Minister is down with it being taught in schools, if the price is right.

Oh i figured, thus my disclaimer.

But something does need to be said that purported literalist readings usually have v.little to do w/ literally reading the other 90% of the book(s).

Dude's still on Comedy Central. Had a 1/2 hour thing after the Amazing Jonathan a few saturdays ago.

Wow. I didn't know anyone did that song and dance anymore. I thought the "pray and row for shore" model had taken over.

^^ HOTT

all this white girls are gunna show up on Burning Angel w/in 3 years, place yer bets

This is pretty funny. I thought even fundies knew about inbreeding (they hate mormons right?).... but I thought most agreed with scientists about genetics.....

The largest dragon (i.e. dinosaur) eggs that we've found to date are about the size of a football. One could fit, for example, a dozen brachiosaurus eggs in the trunk of a car, with room to spare! This also means that recently hatched dragons were not very large. Noah's mission was to preserve each kind of animal. You don't need to find the biggest of each kind. And you don't need each sub-divided species either. Did you know that most modern dog breeds are less than 100 years old? 2 healthy young mutts could preserve the genome of the entire "dog kind" of animals. The Bible uses the word "kind" for the different types of life forms. Horses and zebras can (and have) physically mated producing viable offspring; so have tigers and lions, indicating that they (according to creation theory) probably respectively diverged from the same original stock. Dogs and wolves (though considered quite different by humans today) probably originated from their same "kind" too. There are a few large animals (when fully grown) of course: giraffes, elephants, and T-rexes among them. But the average animal size is about sheep size, i.e. the 3-story Ark was plenty large enough to handle the variety of animal kinds plus lots of food for them. Speciation could descend again from original healthy "mutt" stock to start with. Thinking scientifically about this, it shows incredible variable design, huh?

jesus, how did i miss this thread?

http://img.hottopic.com/is/image/HotTopic/143596_hi?$product$ http://www.woostercollective.com/images/2005/12/200HallowedBeThyName.jpg

xp

The use of the word "speciation" there is incredible: this sentence practically is the whole theory of natural selection and evolution!

i see it on my browser!

What is a ‘kind’? God created a number of different types of animals with much capacity for variation within limits.4 The descendants of each of these different kinds, apart from humans, would today mostly be represented by a larger grouping than what is called a species. In most cases, those species descended from a particular original kind would be grouped today within what modern taxonomists (biologists who classify living things) call a genus (plural genera).

One common definition of a species is a group of organisms which can interbreed and produce fertile offspring, and cannot mate with other species. However, most of the so-called species (obviously all the extinct ones) have not been tested to see what they can or cannot mate with. In fact, not only are there known crosses between so-called species, but there are many instances of trans-generic mating, so the ‘kind’ may in some cases be as high as the family. Identifying the ‘kind’ with the genus is also consistent with Scripture, which spoke of kinds in a way that the Israelites could easily recognize without the need for tests of reproductive isolation.

For example, horses, zebras and donkeys are probably descended from an equine (horse-like) kind, since they can interbreed, although the offspring are sterile. Dogs, wolves, coyotes and jackals are probably from a canine (dog-like) kind. All different types of domestic cattle (which are clean animals) are descended from the Aurochs, so there were probably at most seven (or fourteen) domestic cattle aboard. The Aurochs itself may have been descended from a cattle kind including bisons and water buffaloes. We know that tigers and lions can produce hybrids called tigons and ligers, so it is likely that they are descended from the same original kind.

Woodmorappe totals about 8000 genera, including extinct genera, thus about 16,000 individual animals which had to be aboard. With extinct genera, there is a tendency among some paleontologists to give each of their new finds a new genus name. But this is arbitrary, so the number of extinct genera is probably highly overstated. Consider the sauropods, which were the largest dinosaurs—the group of huge plant-eaters like Brachiosaurus, Diplodocus, Apatosaurus, etc. There are 87 sauropod genera commonly cited, but only 12 are ‘firmly established’ and another 12 are considered ‘fairly well established’.5

One commonly raised problem is ‘How could you fit all those huge dinosaurs on the Ark?’ First, of the 668 supposed dinosaur genera, only 106 weighed more than ten tons when fully grown. Second, as said above, the number of dinosaur genera is probably greatly exaggerated. But these numbers are granted by Woodmorappe to be generous to skeptics. Third, the Bible does not say that the animals had to be fully grown. The largest animals were probably represented by ‘teenage’ or even younger specimens. The median size of all animals on the ark would actually have been that of a small rat, according to Woodmorappe‘s up-to-date tabulations, while only about 11 % would have been much larger than a sheep.

XTREEM WISEMEN

Yeah, that's another fun bit; the deliberate misrepresenting of what folks actually mean when they say "evolution," much like the deliberate misuse of the word "theory" (i.e. instead of "hypothesis"). A lot of it seems like both projection and a cluelessness about how science changes and can disprove itself over time, like all we in the secular world worship upon the altar of Darwin, and we do it in the exact same unquestioning, blindly following way they follow their own leaders.

I think that's why they always call it "Darwinism,"(we only follow the man, who ain't Jesus) and hold up the fact that we've evolved theories that go beyond his as some sorta prove that we're wishy-washy nihilists who don't believe anything strongly(even to refute it).

lol, this is some seriously Star Trek-level biblical retcon!

xpost im getting quotes from answersingenesis.com & a couple other linked or googled creationist faqs - theres nothing even close to consensus on any of this stuff, it basically amounts to biblical fan fiction

this has pretty much always been the strategy of creationists though!

Jesus can get in line, baby.

(sorry for being so frat boy, I've always had the hots for xtian girls. Feeds from my self-defeating nature, I guess.)

(and that red-head is OOTW)

(The freckly god-is-good girl is cute.)

xpost i think he's asking to be forgiven for spreading his oral herpes

X-amining X-Men

It is ironic that the film on one hand depicts the horrors of the Holocaust but on the other embraces evolutionary premises. We must point out that it was evolutionary ideas that actually fueled Hitler’s genocide of ‘less-evolved’ peoples like Jews, Gypsies, Slavic peoples, etc. Evolutionary ideas have never advanced humankind either biologically or socially. On the contrary, they lead to the decay of societies—for example, today’s increase in abortion has been greatly influenced by evolutionary thinking (see Ken Ham’s book Genesis and the Decay of the Nations).

i think he's asking to be forgiven for spreading his oral herpes

otm!

xpost

Blaming Darwin for Hitler is like blaming Jebus for Vlad the Impaler.

actually, they do! there's some site out there for "christian erotica" or some such. it's some really circumscribed erotic stories, but hey, if it gets some of these folks to finally accept intimacy, go for it.

-William L. Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1990), p.236.

"Aww, man, I would totally have this baby, but my genes aren't very good, so ..."

(That's a missed opportunity, really: much more traction in the argument that we're selfish consumption-obsessed children who seek out frivolous self-gratification over the greater fulfillment of family and child-rearing.)

The argument I've heard proposed by certain creationists I know:

1) Even if genetic mutation/"microevolution" (ugh) does occur, evolutionary theory still is not plausible because "most mutations are harmful."
2) When God created living things back in Eden, the gene pool was so pure that even harmful mutations would do minimal damage.

they have, and have.

I've read the Shirer. I think he's only partly right: Luther is certainly a crucial influence on ideas of German-ness, but I don't think the Nazis were explicitly "following his advice".

That one makes little to no sense (and yeah, I know it's not your argument): billions of three-eyed two-headed tail-having double-jointed backwards-limbed critters dead within weeks, just like they are in the present = so?

for real tracer, saying fundies 'have a point' about evolution & hitler is right up there with 'hiphop is dead cuz williamsburg only jams biggie nowadays'

xpost germans saw martin luther in him. really? never heard this. even so, you may as well blame il duce on dante

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Galton

Tell me about it.

Martin Luther OTOH is totally overrated by our received Protestant-slanted history. It's been ingrained in the way we're taught that he was some kind of hero "reformer" that we rarely look at his terrible bastard side.

xp

haha i love the west sometimes

agreed that the fundies (and tracer) are wrong about darwin leading to hitler, my point was that i didn't think/didn't know nazism was that closely linked, either by design or implication, with early protestantism/luther in specific, rather just euro anti-semitism in general

...contrasted with mussolini, who DID say he was the unnamed and as yet-unseen worldly savior of italy called for in the comedy (not dante's fault)

AT BIBLE STUDY.

can't we all just love one another?

While flipping around the TV channels today I stopped briefly on one of our local religious stations. The person preaching was rambling on about the glory of god and how the bible was the word of god (or something like that); to help make his point that the bible was the word of god, he introduced the Dead Sea scrolls. He said that they were 3,000 years old and that scholars had found that they were identical to the modern day bible. In fact, he said, "Every dot over every 'i', every cross of the 't', every comma, and every period is in the exact same place as in the bible in your hand"

that wasn't Howard W. Campbell, was it?

xp guess not

blame the enlightenment

Friday, we already went there.

Who is Ethan?

x-x-post

just now while going to get some pizza i witnessed a guy in ft greene jamming on jeezy. see, god has a plan.

So so SO MANY choice quotes in this one, from the guy who used to work at Universal Studios who built animatronic dinosaurs but says that fossil records of earlier hominids are "deformed, diseased or something," just like some of the people he saw in New York, to the Aussie w/ cricketeer photos in his office and who talks about how they couldn't get away with such a thing Down Under, so he came up here, to the bit of software that figured out where Noah stuck all them animals on the Ark.

They also have to be careful about the animatronic Adam & Eve scene, "...since some of our donors are scared to death about nudity."

None of which are designated in the Bible.

oh, right! i'd been wondering, but thanks for clearing that up so succinctly.

sorry, god.

OH MY GOD, IT'S ALL PHIL COLLINS'S FAULT!

^^ she's totally going to have that tattooed on her lower back after she transfers out of bible college

The museum's research scientist, Dr Jason Lisle, has a PhD in astrophysics from the University of Colorado at Boulder. He realised he was a Christian while he was an undergraduate

He "realised"? Like "OH SHIT! I'm a CHRISTIAN OH NOES NOW WHAT:.

And this is even better:

On top of the shelves is an array of fluffy poodle toys, as well as cuddly dinosaurs. "Poodles are degenerate mutants of dogs. I say that in my lectures and people present them to me as gifts."

Pls to explain why poodles are "degenerate mutants of dogs" k thx.

HOW DO I TELL MY PARENTS?

Have you ever seen a picture of one?

Poodles are degenerate mutants of dogs.

His not understanding that dogs are specifically selected and bred by humans is.. well, telling or something.

-- nabisco (san...), Today 6:54 PM. (nabisco) (later) (link)

JEFF DUNHAM and it's so sad of me to not even have to Google that.

Well, we do have crocodiles and tortoises, which haven't evolved for many millions of years. Reptiles that weren't excessively giant did fairly well through whatever killed the dinosaurs (probably cold). But I'm sure they mean something very different when they say that, and yeah, I'm with you, I have no idea what they mean.

http://www.sexinchrist.com/fist.html

like that? have some more.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

CHARMED, I'M SURE.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/jesus.htm

guess posh, sporty, ginger, baby, and scary werren't enough...

And yet it's still the most accurate thing they've said! Every modern dog breed is descended from the wolf, most of them have only come into existence very recently - on a visual level it's about the only possible example of ultra-fast "evolution" the Christians can use/abuse as they choose.

http://www.petzone.ro/caini/articole/rase/basset-hound/basset.jpg

would stalk the Forests of the North for prey, or the Wild Serengeti, or the colonized parts of the Outback for babies to steal.

Roving packs would terrorize the countryside.

-- Ned Raggett (ne...), December 5th, 2006.

otm

Not hounds, but...HUSKIES AND MALAMUTES!

http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/dog-pictures-breeders-puppies-rescue/alaskan-malamute-pictures-breeders-puppies-rescue/pictures/alaskan-malamute-0034.jpg http://www.mikaylakennels.com/images/blkmalemain.jpg

http://myspace-914.vo.llnwd.net/01423/41/97/1423907914_m.jpg

http://www.puppyfind.com/breed/shiba_inu/m_659098.jpg

(there's a disturbing amount of cosplay results when you do a GIS for 'em)

so glad i clicked on this thread

omg xpost SHIBA INUS OMGDSLKHDSG

the two on the ends have hitler 'staches lol

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/datomana_1926_11615571.jpg

*would give frankincense and myrrh

/pedant

/tenant

/delong

i'm actually pretty optimistic on the darwin vs jesus fite. all the history of science suggests that theologians and religious authorities spend whole lifetimes on arguments about the nature of thought, matter, time, etc, only to have empiricism slash whole realms of their debate away from them, leaving the next generation to reframe their debates in the smaller space left.

today i was discussing with my co-worker what to do when kids start crying at the end of velveteen rabbit ('but he loves that lil bunny...' 'no. it will only make him sick again. burn it with the rest') a early 30something mom sidled up & said

'you know that movie HAPPY FEET? from the commercials you think its just about penguins dancing and having fun but i heard from a lot of people that its really making kids cry because its scary and all full of adult and GAY THEMES and stuff like global warming'

i asked her who she heard all this from & she admitted it was her husband and the tv show 'fox & friends'

In any case, "Who do you think you are?"
Um...extremely genetically similar to that monkey right there?

I wasn't born in Ireland, but that doesn't mean a few Irish people aren't related to me on some level.
Note: I'm only part Irish. Small relationship on a genetic level relative to the rest of my heritage.

Feel free to peruse the user comments, tho, including the following:

JC L gave it a2:

The movie's agenda squashes the fun out of this film- Message: Anglo, religious, Southern, father authority=BAD. Latin, ethnic, U.N., rebellious children= GOOD. Scottish (Anglo) and Southern accents were given to the villains and failed father. Latin and ethnic accents given to the enlightened and fun characters. Unfortunately, I was in a theater full of kids and none of them were having fun or laughing. Graphics were great and kept this from being a total loss.

bran h. gave it a3:

I'd give this movie an 8 for ambition, but a 3 for execution. The film has 2 agendas, one of which reviewers and audience members alike seem to have totally missed. The first is the well-recognized eco-agenda that shows up in the last 30 minutes of the movie (practically out of the blue) and which, though creatively and compellingly handled initially, is ridiculously resolved in the closure of the film. The second, which is both the one that is missed and the one that drives the film's plot, is Mumble's personal storyline - which is a very thinly veiled metaphor about the experience of coming out and seeking community acceptance as a gay man. Mumble is "different" from birth, he's inherently happy (read: gay) about who he is and doesn't mind his difference at all, he is rejected by his community and his father particularly, and finds a new community with sassy, brassy, carefree, dancing, party animals who appear to lack serious convictions about major life issues (a metaphor for the gay bar scene). I like that the gay agenda is presented in such honest and matter-of-fact terms and think that the movie could've been a wonderful one had the filmmakers simplified their presentation around that, but the rest of the movie is just so confused and sloppy - once the eco-agenda is added in to the picture, and issues of madness and depression are thrown in, as well as various religious/metaphystical issues... Well, the movie just gets totally confused, loses its momentum, and, as a result, can't support it's story nor it's twin agendas very effectively.

Ray H. gave it a2:

I saw this with all of my cousins. The youngest is four and the oldest was thirteen. The other adults in my family also came with. We saw this movie thinking it would be at least somewhat funny. My four year old cousin and my six year old cousin, the audience the film was aimed at, FELL ASLEEP!!! The script was awful, the plot was pointless, and came from a definite tree- hugger. The only somewhat funny parts in the movie were Robbin williams' character and his friends. Overall I thought this movie was terrible and a waste of five bucks!!!

M D gave it a2:

Well, I thought it was going to be a cute happy little kids' flick, but little did I know that I was going to have preachy political messages crammed down my throat. It isn't that I necessarily disagree with all of the messages that the movie is trying to preach to us, in fact, I agree with the majority of them. The problem is HOW they did it. How they did it was actually rather offensive and heavy-handed. I felt like they were forcing ideas on me and overtly trying to manipulate me into thinking a certain way. As well, they used strange stereotyping that seemed unnecessary and just wrong somehow. Like, why were some of the penguins Mexican? Weird. And how come the leader of the penguins had a strong Irish brogue and all of the rigid penguin leaders seemed kind of like they were penguin Catholic priests? What point were they trying to make by using stereotypes in this way? That religion is bad? That people who are accepting are latino? Strange. And did you need to use these specific stereotypes to make the point you were trying to make? I felt like I was watching one of the newer Star Wars movies, and expected Jar Jar Binks to show up in one of the scenes... And, frankly, all of these stereotypes and political messages changed the movie from being a movie into being a diatribe. The movie stopped being a cute kids movie about a penguin with special tap-dancing skills who wants to be accepted, and started being a vehicle for the movie-maker's political propaganda. Tell a story OR share your opinion--when you try to pretend like you are telling a story when really you are shoving your views on others, it is dishonest and irritating. And, for a children's movie, it was awfully sexual. Yes, I know, much of the movie revolves around mating, but really, some of this stuff was just too adult for children. And just for the record, I am politically pretty liberal, but when watching this movie, I felt like I was being bashed with a liberal propaganda stick so hard that it almost made me want to say, fish all you want, you eco-destroying trawlers! When you push your views so hard that people already on your side want to get away from you, I don't think you have relayed your messages in the best way possible, eh?

"ethnic"

C on http://www.cool-names.net/msn-emoticons-smiley/cross.gifs

ME: So, I was at this crazy website last night, this creationist guy who thinks humans existed at the same time as dinosaurs, and tries to prove it...it's bizarre, you have to see it.

HER: ...Yeah, but what about Africa?

ME: ..What ABOUT Africa?

HER: Well, you know, what's it called, pangaea? You know, so the dinosaurs were actually in Africa at the same time that humans were.

ME: Um, no, dinosaurs went extinct a really really long time before we evolved into humans.

HER: *rolls her eyes and gives coworkers the "Zach is dumb" look*

THE US PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM HAS FAILED US ALL

wtf?

I think Curtis summed it up, actually. wtf.

Or something. It's obviously wrong, but that's the only thing I can think of since she obviously has a fundamental misunderstanding of (a) dinosaurs, (b) humans, and (c) Pangaea.

These days, I just let people believe that humans had to watch out for dinosaurs when they left their caves during the day. Especially the fire-breathing Dragonasaur!

People weren't on Pangea, to my knowledge.

She' seems to be having difficulty seperating physical space and time.

Pong came before the Genesis. Just because both were sold at Sears doesn't mean they were there at the same time.

Genesis was first dude, it's right there in the Bible :-P

Same plot as Footloose definitely. It was probably in all seriousness pitched as Footloose meets March of the Penguins.

Everyone knows that dancing saves. Parliament always preached that you have to shoot endangered species with your bop gun.

Aquaboogie would have been the perfect soundtrack to the big underwater synchronized swimming scene. Although "Lets Do I Again" in that scene was one of the few good bits of music in the whole thing.

So it's essential U&K viewing, then?

Shortly after school began in September, the teacher told his sixth-period students at Kearny High School that evolution and the Big Bang were not scientific, that dinosaurs were aboard Noah’s ark, and that only Christians had a place in heaven, according to audio recordings made by a student whose family is now considering a lawsuit claiming Mr. Paszkiewicz broke the church-state boundary.

“If you reject his gift of salvation, then you know where you belong,µ Mr. Paszkiewicz was recorded saying of Jesus. “He did everything in his power to make sure that you could go to heaven, so much so that he took your sins on his own body, suffered your pains for you, and he’s saying, ‘Please, accept me, believe.’ If you reject that, you belong in hell.µ

Of course, the kid who recorded him is now being attacked, even receiving a death threat.

The article touches on something else:

Greice Coelho, who took Mr. Paszkiewicz’s class and is a member of his youth group, said in a letter to The Observer, the local weekly newspaper, that Matthew was “ignoring the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which gives every citizen the freedom of religion.µ Some anonymous posters on the town's electronic bulletin board, Kearnyontheweb.com, called for Matthew's suspension.

which is something that's been popping up more & more in fundie political circles, that "freedom of religion" translates to "freedom to annoy your class/office-mates with tone-deaf evangelizing."

So it adds another bit to the rightwinger perception of persecution( and resulting self-righteousness), 'coz the evil secular libruls are taking away their freedoms, etc.

this was par for the course at my high school...my biology teacher flat-out said he didn't believe in evolution and wasn't going to teach it.

Also, what better way to settle the debate than with a friendly board game?

http://www.livingwaters.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000002/boardgame_opened.jpg

Evangelistic, educational, entertaining.

At last, a board game that reveals the insanity of perhaps the greatest hoax of our times -- the unscientific "theory of evolution."

"Intelligent Design vs Evolution" is unique in that the playing pieces are small rubber brains and each team plays for "brain" cards. Each player uses his or her brains to get more brains, and the team with the most brains wins. It has been designed to make people think . . . and that's exactly what it does.

"Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron are doing much more than revealing the bankruptcy of molecules-to-man evolution. They have a greater purpose: proclaiming biblical authority and reaching the lost with the precious gospel message. Enjoy this wonderful family game as you also become better equipped to defend our precious Christian faith." -- Ken Ham, President, Answers in Genesis.

"unscientific"?

we get plenty of candidates. I'm wondering how well this one would go over with the same crowd:

http://www.educationallearninggames.com/images/anatomix-game.jpg

This new game is sure to become a family favorite! Learn about your body and have fun at the same time! Get ready, flick the spinner, and grab your piece! The first player to build their body wins. You can choose between nerves, skeleton, organs, and muscles. Some of the body pieces may even have to be swapped or donated to the body bank-just like in real life!

Grand Canyon guides aren't allowed to say how old the monument is, because that would upset creationist retards.

taken as a recommendation, it does narrow one's options of fuckatableness rather drastically :(

So the player uses their brain to respond to environmental stimuli in the form of questions and develops a bigger and better brain as a result? Sounds a bit like that scientific theory I can't quite recall right now.

how many kids raised in a strict literalist tradition with little coverage in high school of the factual, experimentally-proven aspects of evolution go to college and have their minds blown?

i knew several. once you have the educational background to read about or even reproduce some of the science proving selection and mutation and so on, it's a little impossible to argue against. throw in some bad life experiences ("why would a love God do this to me?"), some hypocrisy ("but that guy told me hot man sex was evil!"), etc etc and whallah, it's really easy to lose faith. it happened to several christian friends i had as a kid.

dawkins's brood and the literalist christians pit creation as the full on opposite of evolution. accept one or the other.

in that game, dawkins wins.

unfortunately for his religious movement, literalist creationism will probably go away except for fringe groups. more and more future christians will get the mutation.

to quote one of our 4th century church fathers, St. Augustine:

Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.

i know it's infuriating that our own president could legislate his religious beliefs, but given who we're talking about, is it shocking?
m.

So for years I was a kind of outside-the-box- christian.
Then I realised many fundamental beleifs of xhristianity that AREN'T contradicted in other parts of the book(why is Song of Solomon in there? it's a porno!) contradicted mine to a great deal.
So I quit it.
For the longest time I was pro christianity, but not for me.

Then I figured out that the majority of the book doesn't sit well with me as a basis of one's life. On top of that, it's hard for me to meet a christian without their beliefs interfering with me conversing comfortably(alot of my friends are athiests, gay, Japanese and so religious but not christian). Well, one of us ends up uncomfortable.

There are exceptions to that last bit.

A Republican member of the Texas House wants to ban the teaching of evolution, claiming that the Big Bang Theory is actually from the Pharisee Religion, and they really shouldn't be teaching religion in school.

Oh yeah, and Einstein and Carl Sagan were Kabbalists. Really.

"You ought to teach creation as well as the fact of evolution," Mr. Chisum said, though he said "all of those kinds of sciences have holes in them. ... But I'm not about teaching religion in schools."

http://fixedearth.com/

The non-moving Earth

& anti-evolution web page of

The Fair Education Foundation, Inc.

Exposing the False Science Idol of Evolutionism,
and Proving the Truthfulness of the Bible from Creation to Heaven...

- since 1973 -

Marshall Hall, Pres.

***

EXTRA! EXTRA!

Read all about the Copernican and Darwinian Myths

(and their many ramifications going all the way to Kabbala-based Big Bangism!)

IN OVER NINETY LINKS BELOW....

Attacking Darwin is pretty standard for these people, but going after Copernicus is a new one. I do hope they target the 2nd law of thermodynamics next.

'Yvonne Anderson, High School Sophomore: "I have read the book which has totally and without a doubt disproved the theory of evolution for me."'

Gosh, you'd think it would be more well known.

oh wait! they did good. it's not all bad news here, people. sometimes the way people write about these things makes it seem like there's this inexorable encroaching tide of ignorance sweeping all in its path before it, but creationists have actually been handed a string of defeats over the past year.

Kansas education board repeals science guidelines questioning evolution

Christian Creationism is controlled by those who are doctrinally wedded to Zionist Dispensational goals. This marriage has blinded the Creationist leadership to the fact that both the Zionist and the Dispensational concepts come from that same 13th century anti-Christ Kabbalist source as did Relativism, Big Bangism, and the Expanding Universe concepts. Add it up!

and accompanying abuses of html.