GRAMMAR FIENDS

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How the hell would you make the surname Pertuis (pronounced Pertwee) plural? Pertuiss, Pertuises, Pertuis's... all seem wrong. Better just to write 'the Pertuis family'?

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Saturday, 2 December 2006 11:11 (seventeen years ago) link

"pertuises". same as "joneses". would be pronounced "pertwees".

but yes, "the pertuis family" is a far more elegant solution.

grimly fiendish (simon), Saturday, 2 December 2006 11:41 (seventeen years ago) link

Pertuis's

Grrrr, aargh, did the six billion grammar threads on old-ILX teach you NOTHING?!?!

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Saturday, 2 December 2006 12:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Grrrr, I hate people who feebly 'grrrr'. I know fine well how it's done! I included the apostrophe example because that's how it had been written - wrongly! - by the author.

ANYWAY, it seems to me now that if 'Pertuis family' weren't possible, it would have to be 'Pertuis' (i.e. no change from the singular). 'Pertuises' isn't the same as 'Joneses', because in 'Joneses' the 'e' is actually doing something.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Saturday, 2 December 2006 13:04 (seventeen years ago) link

People who can't take a joke, classic or dud?

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Saturday, 2 December 2006 13:30 (seventeen years ago) link

aaargh!

Sandbox Scourage (Scourage), Saturday, 2 December 2006 13:47 (seventeen years ago) link

People who say, "People who can't take a joke."

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Saturday, 2 December 2006 13:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Pertices. Like vertices. Problem solved!

Laurel (Laurel), Saturday, 2 December 2006 15:45 (seventeen years ago) link

People who back off a non-joke by pretending it was a joke when they're called on it.

Oddly enough, staying here I saw seven golden bowls make cakes and religion (goo, Saturday, 2 December 2006 16:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Pertuii

jel -- (jel), Saturday, 2 December 2006 16:31 (seventeen years ago) link

GRAMMAR FRIENDS == SUPER FRIENDS

Oddly enough, staying here I saw seven golden bowls make cakes and religion (goo, Saturday, 2 December 2006 16:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Chassis.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Saturday, 2 December 2006 18:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Bloody hell, folks, leave it out, I was making with teh funnies. Craply and ineffectively as it turns out, but, fuck it, call me a fucking dud if you like.

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Saturday, 2 December 2006 18:45 (seventeen years ago) link

one could say that you're being pertuis as fuck

Sandbox Scourage (Scourage), Saturday, 2 December 2006 18:48 (seventeen years ago) link

'Pertuises' isn't the same as 'Joneses', because in 'Joneses' the 'e' is actually doing something.

eh? this might come as a surprise, but the relationship between orthography and pronunciation isn't absolute. nor, in fact, does it make any sense at all. i mean, just look at the way "pertwee" is spelt here anyway.

either way: you're wrong, and your thread's turned into a car crash anyway ;)

grimly fiendish (simon), Saturday, 2 December 2006 19:45 (seventeen years ago) link

nb subs: pls remove one of the "anyways" from that post. thx.

grimly fiendish (simon), Saturday, 2 December 2006 19:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Chassises.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Saturday, 2 December 2006 19:58 (seventeen years ago) link

there are no "anyways" in that post to remove.

stet (stet), Saturday, 2 December 2006 20:14 (seventeen years ago) link

"anyway"s

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Saturday, 2 December 2006 20:18 (seventeen years ago) link

dude. it's someone's name. the pertuises in question might disagree with me here, but i think you, as the writer, owe it to your reader to ensure that, with this non-lexical item, the plural is clearly indicated. "chassis" is a stupid piece of irregular nonsense but most readers of english will recognise it as such and use context to decide number. personally, i'm not sure i'd even have known to pronounce "pertuis" as "pertwee" until you'd said; either way, there's no fucking way i'd recognise "pertuis" as a plural form, just as i wouldn't recognise "adams" as a plural form (but would "adamses") ... or any of the other thousands of surnames ending in "s".

for no reason i can see, you're plucking obscure grammatical exceptions out of thin air ("ooh, 'chassis' doesn't change in the plural ... right, i bet this doesn't either") and trying to apply them to someone's surname. this is daft.

also: the pronunciation of "chassis" doesn't change. the pronunciation of "pertuises" does ("pertwee" v "pertwees").

ultimately, nobody's going to be able to make a definitive call on this except the pertuis family themselves; like i say, their name isn't a lexical item so it's pointless trying to apply rules of grammar to it. however, i'm making a sensible case based on several years of academic study of the english language; basic concepts of readability; and the fact i do this kind of shit for a living every day. you're arguing with ailsa and saying "chassis" and "chassises" a lot. i know who i'd trust ;p

xpost: stet, a) don't be a gigantic chopping-action chop; b) why aren't you in the pub? i thought i was coming out to meet you in half an hour?

grimly fiendish (simon), Saturday, 2 December 2006 20:20 (seventeen years ago) link

i mean, i'm sitting here tanking sloe gin, trying to catch up!

grimly fiendish (simon), Saturday, 2 December 2006 20:21 (seventeen years ago) link

They've gone off for big meal, so I have come home to get changed and wrap present. L coming over here shortly.

stet (stet), Saturday, 2 December 2006 20:31 (seventeen years ago) link

o! will call.

grimly fiendish (simon), Saturday, 2 December 2006 20:31 (seventeen years ago) link

(are you going to party that I was meant to be going to but am ridonkulously skint and tired and partied out? Say hello to relevant people if you are)

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Saturday, 2 December 2006 20:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, but the name is French, obviously, as was 'chassis' originally, and that is how the French do it! That is why 'chassis' is not 'chassises' (not the only reason, actually: see below). The French forms are retained because there is no other, sensible, option.

You would recognise that 'Adams' (or if you like 'Adames') was the plural of 'Adam' rather than a singular 'Adams' because it would be followed by, e.g., 'are' rather than 'is'.

Also, there are no instances in English (I say this hoping to be proved wrong on this, by means of jokes if necessary) where an 'e' is introduced in the plural form where that 'e' is not pronounced.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Saturday, 2 December 2006 20:38 (seventeen years ago) link

I think I would want to make it Pertuix, actually, but there is no real correct grammatical reason for this, I just like it because it looks suitably wanky.

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Saturday, 2 December 2006 20:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Okay, apart from words ending in 'f'.

xpost. Yes, Pertuix is the prettiest.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Saturday, 2 December 2006 20:47 (seventeen years ago) link

And 'o'!

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Saturday, 2 December 2006 20:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, but the name is French, obviously, as was 'chassis' originally, and that is how the French do it!

mais nous ne sommes pas francais, donc ... meh :)

The French forms are retained because there is no other, sensible, option.

yes. english orthography is noted for "sense", isn't it?

You would recognise that 'Adams' (or if you like 'Adames') was the plural of 'Adam' rather than a singular 'Adams' because it would be followed by, e.g., 'are' rather than 'is'.

eh? i'm talking about the surname "adams", not "the adams" as a plural of "the family whose surname is adams". but you're obviously determined to plough this singular furrow, and to be quite brutally frank i couldn't give less of a fuck as there's a whole city's worth of beer out there for me to drink (just as soon as mrs fiendish is ready, chiz).

ailsa: not sure. if i do, i will, but i've no idea what form the night is going to take :/

grimly fiendish (simon), Saturday, 2 December 2006 21:08 (seventeen years ago) link

oh fuck. i meant "the family whose surname is adam". i'm approaching too-drunk-to-argue-about-grammar territory fast.

grimly fiendish (simon), Saturday, 2 December 2006 21:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Fair dos. Fair does? (ha!) I am being pressured by text message to party, but I am knackered and have too many other drinking commitments from now until the end of time. Have fun!

xpost, ha, right, that'll be the day that you're too drunk to argue about grammar...

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Saturday, 2 December 2006 21:12 (seventeen years ago) link

heh. there's arguing about grammar, and there's arguing about grammar properly. and i find gin tends to blur the lines between the two.

grimly fiendish (simon), Saturday, 2 December 2006 21:16 (seventeen years ago) link

shift yr arse dude, we're nearly there

stet (stet), Saturday, 2 December 2006 21:20 (seventeen years ago) link

tell mrs fiendish :(

grimly fiendish (simon), Saturday, 2 December 2006 21:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Fair dos. Fair does? (ha!)

The COD has it as either dos or - haha - do's.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Saturday, 2 December 2006 21:25 (seventeen years ago) link

Really? OMG!

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Saturday, 2 December 2006 21:26 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.bbcprograms.com/pbs/catalog/drwho/images/john_pertwee.jpg

remy bean (bean), Saturday, 2 December 2006 21:26 (seventeen years ago) link

It's appropriate that you posted that - very lovely - picture. The reason I asked the question was that I am working on a book about Jon Pertwee and his family. (Pertwee changed the spelling presumably to avoid threads like this.)

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Saturday, 2 December 2006 22:49 (seventeen years ago) link

At a Belle and Sebastian concert, the ratio of striped sweaters to non-striped sweaters is generally set at one sweater Pertwee individual.

remy bean (bean), Saturday, 2 December 2006 23:42 (seventeen years ago) link

I fall into the one pertuis/two pertuis camp, but would write la famille Pertuis to avoid confusion.

Madchen (Madchen), Sunday, 3 December 2006 12:32 (seventeen years ago) link

i would love pertuix to be the answer. it's obviously pertuises though :(

i went to school with a girl whose surname was proudfoot. i can't remember whether it was her or someone else who insisted that the plural was proudfeet, but...whoever it was should have been right.

lexpretend (lexpretend), Sunday, 3 December 2006 13:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Ugh, can someone help me with this?

How can I fix:

"My students seemed to be more impressed by my car, which my family and I were standing in front of in the photo."

The comma doesn't work there, I know, but then it doesn't work without it either. I could fix the whole thing by replacing "My car" with "the car", but then that wouldn't indicate that it was my own vehicle.

Zachary Scott (Zachary S), Monday, 4 December 2006 01:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Hmm. I just changed it to:

"My studnets seemed to be much more captivated by the object that my family and I were standing in front of: my car."

Sigh.

Zachary Scott (Zachary S), Monday, 4 December 2006 01:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Studnets=students.

Although studnet should probably be a word meaning someone who always catches "hot studs".

Zachary Scott (Zachary S), Monday, 4 December 2006 01:12 (seventeen years ago) link

The comma doesn't work there

?

why not?

grimly fiendish (simon), Monday, 4 December 2006 01:28 (seventeen years ago) link

other than maybe changing it to "... my car, in front of which ... were standing", i wouldn't fuck with that sentence at all. what do you feel is the problem with it?

grimly fiendish (simon), Monday, 4 December 2006 01:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, the original sounds fine to me -- only questionable part is "in front of in the photo," which is technically correct but a little awkward with all those prepositions.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 4 December 2006 01:33 (seventeen years ago) link

The second one is better and more direct. There is nothing much wrong, technically, with the first one, other than that it is boring and squanders the joke.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 4 December 2006 01:42 (seventeen years ago) link

the "joke"? right, i'm really missing something here.

grimly fiendish (simon), Monday, 4 December 2006 01:56 (seventeen years ago) link

The joke: they are more interested in the car than us hoho.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 4 December 2006 02:25 (seventeen years ago) link

By second one you mean "My students seemed to be much more captivated by the object that my family and I were standing by: my car." ? I ended up going for that one. There is no "joke" to it, but I do like how it (hopefully) keeps the reader's interest all the way through the sentence.

This is for a letter of intention for grad school, by the way. I'm trying to connect a story about my student's interest in my car while I was teaching in China to a broader point about future geopolitical conflict between China and the US.

Zachary Scott (Zachary S), Monday, 4 December 2006 02:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Yes, that one. The other one was boring. The second one's structured as a joke even though it's not (even supposed to be) funny.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 4 December 2006 02:45 (seventeen years ago) link

It would produce a wry smile, I think.

Madchen (Madchen), Monday, 4 December 2006 11:22 (seventeen years ago) link

if you'd been half as interested in that car as your students were you might not be in hospital now

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 4 December 2006 11:28 (seventeen years ago) link

ah, right, i see. yes, in that case the second one is better. although "object" is a bit unusual, no?. "my students seemed more interested in what my family and i were standing by: my car"?

grimly fiendish (simon), Monday, 4 December 2006 12:11 (seventeen years ago) link

why WERE they so interested in that car?

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 4 December 2006 12:15 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't think they were necessarily that interested. It was just that the family were so boring.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 4 December 2006 12:42 (seventeen years ago) link

The plural of Pertuis is not Pertuises, because that would totally confuse people as to how it was pronounced. You wouldn't say "the Descarteses" would you?

G. Samsa (G. Samsa), Monday, 4 December 2006 12:51 (seventeen years ago) link

no. i refer you to everything i said upthread about pronunciation and orthography, and then to the gesture i'm making with my extended middle finger, which sadly you can't see. but i'm sure you get the message :)

grimly fiendish (simon), Monday, 4 December 2006 13:18 (seventeen years ago) link

I do hope so :)

RJG (RJG), Monday, 4 December 2006 13:22 (seventeen years ago) link

[cutting, aggressive remark] ;)

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 4 December 2006 13:31 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm now quite sure why you'd have the "e" at all if you're not bothered about misdirecting pronunciation. Let's go pertuiss!

Alba (Alba), Monday, 4 December 2006 13:41 (seventeen years ago) link

Raised middle fingers notwithstanding, I stick by what I say. Grimly, you make no logical sense. If it's true that the relationship between orthography and pronunciation isn't absolute, then it's also true that the relationship is by no means arbitrary, and that changed pronunciation over the centuries has often led to changed spellings. Spelling conventions in English are often messy and sometimes contradictory, but that are still there. One of them is that in plurals of words that end in an 's', we add an 'e' between the two ss, to ensure pronuciation of both. That's clearly redundant in this case, since the first 's' isn't pronounced. The most elegant solution, and one used for all other French-derived words ending in a silent 's' (chassis etc.), is for the plural to be unchanged.

G. Samsa (G. Samsa), Monday, 4 December 2006 13:50 (seventeen years ago) link

What's more, if you put
plurals "silent s"
into Google, you'll come up with several hits confirming my position, and none confirming yours. For example from sparknotes.com:

Silent S
If a word ends in an unpronounced s, make it plural by ignoring it—don’t add an s, an apostrophe, or anything else.

G. Samsa (G. Samsa), Monday, 4 December 2006 13:52 (seventeen years ago) link

New idea: les Pertuis.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 4 December 2006 13:58 (seventeen years ago) link

Les Pertuises indicates that it's only the laydeez in da house.

Madchen (Madchen), Monday, 4 December 2006 15:01 (seventeen years ago) link

But if that comes at the beginning of the sentence, how do you distinguish the Pertuis family from Les Pertuis, the string-vested, absinthe-drinking, jug-band aficionado?

xpost indeed

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 4 December 2006 15:24 (seventeen years ago) link

like i keep saying: "pertuis" is a non-lexical item. it is ridiculous to attempt to apply rules of grammar to it. all we need here is a quick and simple way for eyeball kicks to show that it's in the plural form. -es is the only logical solution. pronunciation doesn't matter.

into Google, you'll come up with several hits confirming my position, and none confirming yours

OH NOES THE MIGHT OF THE INTERNET IS AGAINST ME. I MUST VOTE FOR DAVID CAMERON/SAY "SHOULD OF" INSTEAD OF "SHOULD HAVE"/SPEND ALL DAY LOOKING AT BRITNEY'S VAGINA.

we need a new version of godwin's law: "when someone says 'ah, but google says this', the entire internet should be deleted." or similar.

grimly fiendish (simon), Monday, 4 December 2006 16:13 (seventeen years ago) link

oh well :)

RJG (RJG), Monday, 4 December 2006 16:16 (seventeen years ago) link

The answer, as I realised by the fourth post, is 'Pertuis'. The question is now closed except to jokes.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 4 December 2006 16:18 (seventeen years ago) link

dude: it's your book (is it a book? i can't remember, and i'm fucked if i'm reading this bloody thread again) and it's your call. until your editor gets involved, heheheh.

hey! i've just remembered. i have mod powers in the sandbox. don't make me lock this thread, people. just don't.

grimly fiendish (simon), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:22 (seventeen years ago) link

grimly, Madchen's point is another tough one for your approach. "es" adds a decidedly feminine twist to an already French name, and those who know French will certainly think you are just talking about the Pertuis babes. Since you recognize that names must be taken on a case-by-case basis, I hope you'll finally lay aside this silly grandstanding and come to your senses.

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Silly old Grimly.

Madchen (Madchen), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:42 (seventeen years ago) link

tell you what: next time i meet a pertuis, or even a gang of pertuises, they're getting a pummelling.

grimly fiendish (simon), Monday, 4 December 2006 22:01 (seventeen years ago) link

It's not nice to hit girls.

Madchen (Madchen), Monday, 4 December 2006 22:25 (seventeen years ago) link

That's a common misconception.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 00:16 (seventeen years ago) link

how do you know he meant 'hit'?

Louis Jagger (Scourage), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 00:23 (seventeen years ago) link

GRIMLY VS THE PERTUISES

http://sparky.thehold.net/pix/061205pertuises.jpg

(note mädchen, in the yellow dress, looking disapproving)

grimly fiendish (simon), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 00:28 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't care about these Petruis(es), but:

"My students seemed to be much more captivated by the object that my family and I were standing by: my car."

That sentence is awkward as hell and I'd never write it. There are many better ways to say that. "Nothing seemed to captivate my students as much as the car we were standing in front of" or "The car we were standing in front of was more captivating to my students" or the first version you posted, or probably best of all, an entirely different construction. But that one above, no way.

steve schneeberg (steve go1dberg), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 00:51 (seventeen years ago) link

i think context is all here. i'd have agreed with you, steve, until i realised the point ZS was trying to make.

grimly fiendish (simon), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 00:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Eh, I still think it's a cringe-inducing sentence regardless of context. Like I said, I think the best way to write it would be something completely different rather than just a "remix" of the sentence, but I'd have to see the whole paragraph in order to come up with something better.

But come on, that sounds like choice D on some standardized test, the one that they throw in there just to give you something that's easy to eliminate and that you can't imagine anyone would ever really pick.

steve schneeberg (steve go1dberg), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 01:07 (seventeen years ago) link

That sentence is awkward as hell and I'd never write it.

Hey, Steve, how would you rewrite this sentence: "I'm a fanny"?

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 01:23 (seventeen years ago) link

I'd probably rewrite it as: "Kiss my ass"

steve schneeberg (steve go1dberg), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 01:29 (seventeen years ago) link

but you're a fanny

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 09:20 (seventeen years ago) link

"There are three Françoises in my class"

Now, according to Fiendish, this sentence could apply equally to three girls called Françoise, or three boys called François. But anyone looking at it would automatically assume the former, not the latter. To avoid confusion, if you mean boys called François the sentence would have to be: "There are three François in my class."

Hence Fiendish's solution fatally fails the comprehension test, and clarity is surely at the heart of all editing decisions. Which means that Fiendish is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

G. Samsa (G. Samsa), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 10:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Now, according to Fiendish, this sentence could apply equally to three girls called Françoise

no it wouldn't. when did i say that? stop putting words in my mouth.

clarity, eh? how's this: "GIVE IT A REST, YOU TEDIOUS FUCKING PRICK."

grimly fiendish (simon), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 10:19 (seventeen years ago) link

no it wouldn't. when did i say that? stop putting words in my mouth.

Your solution to names that end in a silent 's' is to add "es" for plural. So for you, the plural of François is Françoises. And the plural of Françoise is Françoises.

clarity, eh? how's this: "GIVE IT A REST, YOU TEDIOUS FUCKING PRICK."

Christ. It's a thread entitled "grammar fiends". No need for gratuitous abuse.

G. Samsa (G. Samsa), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 10:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Your solution to names that end in a silent 's' is to add "es" for plural

no it isn't. my solution to "pertuis" is to add -es. it's a surname, where the pronunciation will not be obvious to many people. if you bother to read the thread, you'll see i've made this point at least twice. you might disagree. i appreciate that.

and, as i keep saying: it's a non-lexical item, therefore who's really to say how it should behave "gramatically"? not you, and not i. we've made our points - some more elegantly than others. as i've said so many times i'm bored shitless: the only people who really could give us a definitive answer are members of the pertuis family (and i bet there's division there too, heh).

No need for gratuitous abuse.

granted, that was a bit OTT and i apologise. but really, seriously: give it a fucking rest. eyeball kicks has made his decision, and it's based on his own intelligent reasoning. i disagree, but i respect his professional decision. for you to still be wittering on like a schoolboy some 18 hours after he said: "please, stop it now" is really, really fucking irritating.

and that's my final word on the matter.

grimly fiendish (simon), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 10:39 (seventeen years ago) link

:)

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 10:42 (seventeen years ago) link

no, really.

grimly fiendish (simon), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 10:46 (seventeen years ago) link

:)

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 10:49 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.80s.com/saveferris/images/cast/ruck.jpg

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 10:57 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.thebratpacksite.com/images/ferrisbueller.gif

grimly fiendish (simon), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 11:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Back to 'captivate', then. I'm not convinced that something can be more or less captivating. It either captivates you or it doesn't.

Grimly, FWIW, I would agree with you if it wasn't a silent s. But it is.

Madchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 12:52 (seventeen years ago) link

I mean, were it pronounced pertwiss.

Madchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 12:54 (seventeen years ago) link

i like 'the family Pertuis'

sede vacante (blueski), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 13:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Blimey, Simon's gone fucking mental.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 13:08 (seventeen years ago) link

I think they're cunts

xpost

nu_onimo (nu_onimo), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 13:13 (seventeen years ago) link

i considered trying to find a pertuis family to e-mail and ask. but, worryingly, the top hit when you google "pertuis family" is, er, me wittering on this thread. fuck.

GRIMLY VERSUS EVERYBODE:

http://sparky.thehold.net/pix/061205pertuises.jpg

grimly fiendish (simon), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 13:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Average lifr expectancy of the Pertuis family

(in 1975, they were attacked in the grammar pogroms. Cries of "But we're a non-lexical item!" went unheeded)

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Average life expectancy of the Pertuis family

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Average life expectancy of the Pertuis family

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:57 (seventeen years ago) link

What happened in 1976? Did Great-Granny Pertuis serve bad vichyssoise at the family reunion?

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 15:25 (seventeen years ago) link

One way of avoiding making a plural of "Pertuis" is to have ONLY ONE PERTUIS. More Vichyssiose!

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 15:26 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't trust those charts. The "General Population" line seems to always follow the median of the family in question.

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 15:31 (seventeen years ago) link

When the Pertuises flourish, we all flourish. As they decline, we decline.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 15:33 (seventeen years ago) link

When the Pertuis sneeze, we all catch a cold.

stet (stet), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 15:38 (seventeen years ago) link

The Pertuis, you see,
is you and me.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 23:08 (seventeen years ago) link

The whole (offending) paragraph:

During my second month teaching English in China, I decided to show the students a picture of myself taken after my college graduation. I passed the photo around, expecting them to be interested in my mother and sister’s blonde hair, my cap and gown, and the American scenery in the background. Instead, they seemed to be much more captivated by the object that my family and I were standing in front of: my car. Soon, instead of learning words like graduation, tassel, and diploma, my students were saying Ford, driver’s license, and gas station. Although the class itself didn’t go as I had planned, I did learn something firsthand about the aspirations of China’s future.

I'm displaying the whole paragraph for context. Please feel free to evaluate, or reevaluate. And, thanks.

Zachary Scott (Zachary S), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 04:03 (seventeen years ago) link

I think that's fine.

Jesus Dan (dan perry), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 04:11 (seventeen years ago) link

much more captivated

or

much more interested

Madchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 11:20 (seventeen years ago) link

'much more interested' is a boring way of putting it though.

Madchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 11:21 (seventeen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
Is it "expressed permission" or "express permission"?

Alba (Alba), Friday, 29 December 2006 15:45 (seventeen years ago) link

I mean, obv. the former makes sense, but is the latter some old idiomatic version of it. Actually the example is "express orders", I don't really know why I asked about permission.

Alba (Alba), Friday, 29 December 2006 15:47 (seventeen years ago) link

"express permission"

express [adj.]
1 a : directly, firmly, and explicitly stated b : EXACT, PRECISE
2 a : designed for or adapted to its purpose b : of a particular sort : SPECIFIC

Joe Isuzu's Petals (Rock Hardy), Friday, 29 December 2006 15:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Ta. I don't really know why I didn't look in a dictionary. One meaning of express is "definitely stated, not implied". End.

Alba (Alba), Friday, 29 December 2006 15:51 (seventeen years ago) link

I would think it was "express permission" but I have no real idea why other than that it's the way I pronounce it if saying it (which isn't often), and I tend to be of the opinion that I am right about these things.

Please note that I'm in the "another think coming" camp, and invented the word Pertuix, so am possibly not to be trusted.

(xpost, or perhaps I am!)

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Friday, 29 December 2006 15:51 (seventeen years ago) link

I thought "another think coming" turned out to be right.

Not For Use as Infant Nog (A-Ron Hubbard), Friday, 29 December 2006 15:57 (seventeen years ago) link

I think there was some controversy and the consensus was that both were acceptable (except that I disagree with consensus because "another thing coming" is completely fucking wrong and lots of people getting something wrong all the time doesn't make it right by default)

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Friday, 29 December 2006 15:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Even if "another think coming" is technically right, it's really wrong.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 29 December 2006 16:02 (seventeen years ago) link

LET'S NOT, OKAY!?

Joe Isuzu's Petals (Rock Hardy), Friday, 29 December 2006 16:03 (seventeen years ago) link

OH GOD, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

(xpost, heh)

grimly fiendish (simon), Friday, 29 December 2006 16:04 (seventeen years ago) link

"Another thought coming" would be right but doesn't convey the angry-mumness of "another think coming." Tetchy verbal anger = grammar out the window.

suzy artskooldisko (suzy artskooldisko), Friday, 29 December 2006 16:12 (seventeen years ago) link

I WILL LOCK THIS FUCKER. I MEAN IT.

grimly fiendish (simon), Friday, 29 December 2006 17:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Roffle. (Maybe I would like to be an ILE mod, now that I think of it.)

Joe Isuzu's Petals (Rock Hardy), Friday, 29 December 2006 18:10 (seventeen years ago) link

t/s: specifically vs. pacifically

Comrades, meet Tildo Durd (Scourage), Friday, 29 December 2006 18:26 (seventeen years ago) link

My bugbear = formerly vs formally

ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Friday, 29 December 2006 18:27 (seventeen years ago) link

A cricketing one: how can you describe a batsman playing carefully as a batsman playing 'circumspectly', as many commentators do? If he were playing circumspectly, he'd be looking all around as the ball was delivered, not watching it, getting out, and therefore not playing 'carefully' in the slightest. GRR!!!

Comrades, meet Tildo Durd (Scourage), Friday, 29 December 2006 18:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Circumspect: attentive to the consequences of one's behavior.

ledge (ledge), Saturday, 30 December 2006 11:56 (seventeen years ago) link

This I know because the Bible tells me so!

ledge (ledge), Saturday, 30 December 2006 11:58 (seventeen years ago) link


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