J.R. Smith has literally been shanghaied away for the foreshortened 2011-2012 NBA season: rolling ILH sandbox thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0F3dknkmLg

HOOPS

WojYahooNBAAdrian Wojnarowski
Chinese teams have shown no inclination to let Kenyon Martin, Wilson Chandler, JR Smith, Etc., out of contracts, sources tell Y! Sports.

They all signed agreements that they would have to play in China until season ends in March. They can't sign NBA contracts without releases.

If strategy becomes to make themselves problems there -- or In Smith's case, a bigger problem -- teams can fine, suspend them, without pay.

As official says: "They can play, get paid (in China), and return to NBA in March. Or they can not get paid, and return to NBA in March."

The NBA's a member of FIBA, and it abides by international contracts signed by players. Players and agents knew that when they signed deals.

It made no sense for Aaron Brooks to sign China deal so close to Christmas Day push for a labor deal. Why not wait a week? Now, he's stuck.

China Basketball Association passed rule that it would only sign NBA free agents. No out-clauses for guys under contract.

lol can't tebow be sent on a diplomatic mission to save denver hoops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHU5Fcv0YhQ

please fast forward to 0:43

mike miller :(

I'll feel much better once the NBA training camps have opened and the bball chatter turns toward actual hoops again.

I M READY FOR THIS SHIT TO POP OFF

I'll feel much better once the NBA training camps have opened and the bball chatter turns toward actual hoops again.

― Aimless, Monday, November 28, 2011 4:47 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Permalink

yeah i'm not that psyched yet but i think the reality just hasn't hit.

WojYahooNBAAdrian Wojnarowski
Chinese teams have shown no inclination to let Kenyon Martin, Wilson Chandler, JR Smith, Etc., out of contracts, sources tell Y! Sports.

They all signed agreements that they would have to play in China until season ends in March. They can't sign NBA contracts without releases.

If strategy becomes to make themselves problems there -- or In Smith's case, a bigger problem -- teams can fine, suspend them, without pay.

As official says: "They can play, get paid (in China), and return to NBA in March. Or they can not get paid, and return to NBA in March."

The NBA's a member of FIBA, and it abides by international contracts signed by players. Players and agents knew that when they signed deals.

It made no sense for Aaron Brooks to sign China deal so close to Christmas Day push for a labor deal. Why not wait a week? Now, he's stuck.

China Basketball Association passed rule that it would only sign NBA free agents. No out-clauses for guys under contract.

― moullet, Monday, November 28, 2011 12:42 PM (9 hours ago)

wait whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

btw hollinger's player profiles are up ^_^

tbrr and maybe heretical i wish every season ran from beginning of december - late april and was like 60 games, btw. was thinking about that today.

btw hollinger's player profiles are up ^_^

― k3vin k., Tuesday, November 29, 2011 3:34 AM (13 hours ago) Bookmark Permalink

can u post lakers for meh ?

the team profile that is

PROJECTED STARTERS

DEREK FISHER, PG
Projection: 8.6 pts, 2.8 reb, 3.7 ast per 40 min; 7.83 PER | Player card

• Tough, physical, veteran point guard. Loves pull-up jumper in transition.
• Poor finisher. Rarely attacks paint. Prefers catch-and-shoot 3 or one-dribble.
• Lacks footspeed but very strong and crafty. Often matches up better against 2s.

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Fisher ran circles around the league's agents this summer, but come this winter it's the league's other point guards that may be running circles around him. The Lakers were savaged by opposing point guards in both rounds of the playoffs, and it will be interesting to see how the Lakers view Fisher now that the championship halo is gone.

As long as L.A. was winning titles, every contribution of his was seen as gravy, no matter how minimal. With the Lakers no longer reigning, all that changes, and point guard is the one position this team absolutely, positively must address. Between Fisher and Steve Blake, Lakers point guard was hands down the worst position in the league among playoff teams. Or nearly among any team, for that matter. One could credibly argue that only New Jersey's small forwards surpassed them in awfulness.

Fisher comes off a season in which he shot 38.9 percent from the floor and ranked in the bottom 10 point guards in both TS% and usage rate -- in other words, he struggled to create shots, and he couldn't make the ones he created. This is difficult for fans to grasp because physically he looks like the same player, but he's not: His 40-minute scoring rate is barely half what it was three years ago. Defensively, he allowed a 17.7 PER to opposing point guards and had the worst Synergy numbers on the team. His rebound rate was very nearly the worst in the league (see Jamal Crawford comment). At times, it seemed the only thing keeping him in the starting lineup was the fact that Steve Blake was even worse.

Fisher's physical defense against big guards still has value, as does his overall savvy, but this needs to be put into context -- the guy averaged 9.4 points per 40 minutes, shot 38.6 percent on 2-pointers, can't create off the dribble, and can't keep quick guards in front of him. It's become increasingly difficult to defend the idea that Fisher should remain a 30-minute starter. If we're being brutally honest, on many rosters he wouldn't even be the backup.

KOBE BRYANT, SG
Projection: 26.3 pts, 6.0 reb, 4.8 ast per 40 min; 21.31 PER | Player card

• Devastating post-up guard who makes midrange jumpers over top of defense.
• Excellent ballhandler for size. Sees floor, can create and finish. Natural scorer.
• Smart defender but intensity fluctuates. Rarely asked to defend good players.

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Call him the master of the elbow jump shot. Bryant was the only player in the league to take more than 150 shots from 10-15 feet and also make more than half his tries. The only player to make more shots from that distance was Elton Brand. But unlike Brand, who was taking those shots when left open on pick-and-pop plays, Bryant was doing it on mid-post turnarounds or off his own dribble with a defender in his face. He still nearly led the league, making 51.5 percent from that distance, and with one more make he would have been first (see Paul Millsap comment).

While knee problems kept Bryant from practicing nearly the entire season and appeared to limit him in the playoffs, it was tough to tell much was wrong in the regular season. He led the NBA in points per 40 minutes (you won't believe who was second, by the way -- see chart), ranked ninth at his position in free-throw attempts per field-goal attempt despite all those midrange Js, and shared the ball well enough to post a solid pure point rating too. About the only blemish was a 32.3 percent mark on 3s, a shot Bryant has never been particularly good at.

Most points per 40 minutes, 2010-11
Player Team Points/40
Kobe Bryant LAL 29.9
Kevin Martin Hou 28.8
Kevin Durant OKC 28.6
Carmelo Anthony NY 28.5
LeBron James Mia 27.6
Min. 500 minutes

Defensively, Bryant remained solid in one-on-one play (although he rarely left the weak side). His Synergy numbers were in the middle of the pack and opposing PERs mustered just an 11.8 PER against him, according to 82games.com, but the Lakers allowed 4.58 points more per 100 possessions with him on the court -- the worst figure on the team. He tends to go on cruise control if he thinks he can get away with it and his first-team All-Defense selection by the "coaches" was a joke, but between his size, strength and competitiveness he's a plus defender. Bryant also remains among the better rebounding guards in the game, ranking 10th at his position in rebound rate.

METTA WORLD PEACE, SF
Projection: 11.3 pts, 4.6 reb, 3.1 ast per 40 min; 11.17 PER | Player card

• Elite one-on-one wing defender with quick hands, superior strength and good feet.
• Has lost a step and can't jump at all. Struggles chasing through screens.
• Very poor finisher. Poor shot selection. Can make corner 3s. Can't dance.

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When he wasn't entertaining the masses with his moves on the dance floor -- we haven't seen him shuffle his feet like that since his last shot fake -- the former Ron Artest was busy changing his name to something more ethereal. As our J.A. Adande noted, the PA announcer now can say "Peace out" when he's substituted.

World Peace can still defend, posting the best defensive plus-minus on the Lakers at minus-4.66 points per 100 possessions, according to basketballvalue.com, and surrendering just a 13.9 PER to opposing small forwards, according to 82games.com. Synergy rated him second only to LeBron James among small forwards, and he led his position in steals per minute.

It's easy to see why: With his combination of physicality, quick feet and fast hands, few wings can do much against him one-on-one. Where he struggles is chasing quick players through screens, because he doesn't have the nimbleness to cut through all the traffic. Perhaps those dance lessons will help. Also, Artest has basically given up on defensive rebounding, ranking 67th out of 68 small forwards.

Offensively, World Peace (and don't worry, I feel as ridiculous writing "World Peace" as you do reading it) really struggled last season. He shot only 39.7 percent and had another precipitous drop in his free-throw rate, and while he was moderately effective as a corner 3-point shooter (35.6 percent), he shot a ghastly 27.1 percent on long 2s. Additionally, his physicality can't compensate for a lack of leaping ability; he made only 57.1 percent in the basket area, whereas the average small forward converted 64.6 percent.

As a result, his TS% was one of the worst at his position, and he only moderately compensated with his passing ability. Out of 67 small forwards, he was 55th in points per 40 minutes and 53th in TS%. By any name, that's not good enough.

PAU GASOL, PF
Projection: 19.4 pts, 10.8 reb, 3.6 ast per 40 min; 22.13 PER | Player card

• Long, highly skilled post scorer with excellent dexterity and 18-foot range.
• Smart player, sees floor well. Can make jump hook with either hand.
• Blocks shots but lacks strength and can be bullied on blocks. Good rebounder.

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Gasol played some of the best ball of his career over the first month of the season and finished with career bests in PER, free throw percentage and turnover ratio. While much of Gasol's progress has been so incremental that you'd have to stare through a magnifying glass to notice, his improvement as a midrange shooter over the past two seasons has been fairly dramatic. Additionally, he's been able to cut his turnovers by relying more on this shot, which he now makes with uncanny accuracy.

Gasol hit 48.7 percent of his long 2s and 46.2 percent of his shots beyond 10 feet last season. And it wasn't a small sample -- he tried 413 of them. That keeps the ball out of traffic, and led to the third-lowest miscue rate among centers (I have Gasol ranked with the centers because he played slightly more of his minutes there than at power forward, given the lengthy absence of Andrew Bynum). Additionally, he remains an exquisite passer who ranked fifth among centers in pure point rating.

Defensively, Gasol's stats are solid overall, but there's a stark division between his results at the 4 and the 5. Gasol struggles when he has to play center because he isn't physical, but his length and mobility makes him a plus at the power forward position. 82games.com shows some of this via opponent PER, which is much worse when Gasol plays center. He won't foul, posting the third-lowest rate among centers, and has improved his effort on the boards considerably since the Celtics punked him in the 2008 NBA Finals. That said, he's primarily a finesse player, and Andrew Bynum's presence helps him considerably.

ANDREW BYNUM, C
Projection: 16.9 pts, 13.0 reb, 2.1 ast per 40 min; 20.38 PER | Player card

• Huge post weapon who can establish deep position and score from short range.
• Excellent shot-blocker. Won't rotate to perimeter but protects basket.
• Good post defender. Capable passer but tends to hold ball. Very injury-prone.

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Bynum played in only 54 games, bringing his total over the past four years to 124 absences -- more than a third of the schedule. But when he plays he's an All-Star caliber center. Bynum posted his fourth straight 20-plus PER even though he saw fewer post touches, costing him three points off his 40-minute scoring average. Instead, Bynum worked the glass, posting a 19.2 rebound rate that ranked ninth among centers.

Not that he was a slouch when he caught the ball in close. Bynum shot 72.7 percent in the basket area last season, leading to the ninth-best TS% among centers, plus he's an above-average passer out of the block. The one quibble with him offensively is that he tends to stop the ball as he surveys the defense to make his move.

Bynum's value on defense is obvious. He provides a strong interior presence, ranking seventh in blocks per minute, and uses his huge frame to wall off the lane against opposing big men. Opposing centers mustered only an 11.4 PER against him, while opponents averaged 3.14 fewer points per 100 possessions with him on the floor.

"On the floor" being a key variable, given all the time he's missed. He's an All-Star performer when he plays, but after missing chunks of four straight seasons with knee problems he can't be penciled in for more than 50 games or so. And once again, he'll start the season on the sideline -- this time as a result of a five-game suspension for a gratuitous cheap shot on Dallas' J.J. Barea in the playoffs.

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RESERVES

LAMAR ODOM, PF
Projection: 15.8 pts, 10.5 reb, 3.6 ast per 40 min; 17.68 PER | Player card

• Mobile combo forward with outstanding ballhandling skill for size.
• Average outside shooter who lacks great burst. Vastly improved rebounder.
• Strong defensive player. Can guard physical 4s or step out to perimeter.

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Odom had a career season at age 31. That's the good news. The bad news is he is one of seven players whose stats can be expected to sharply regress this season, based on a phenomenon called the Fluke Rule. While these seasons are not all flukes per se, the rule of thumb still holds: Any player past the age of 28 whose player efficiency rating (A) jumps by more than three points in a season and (B) is above 14 will see his PER regress the next season, on average, by roughly the same amount. The odds are better than 90 percent that his PER will go down, and in many cases the decline is steep.

This is particularly true for players like Odom that are on the wrong side of 30 and had never played this well previously. Odom's PER last season was a career high because he shot the lights out both in the basket area (70.2 percent) and on 3-pointers (38.2 percent). However, based on his career norms he seems unlikely to sustain such lofty percentages.

As a reminder, here's how last year's Fluke Rule class fared (see chart). While it rarely works out this neatly across the entire group, the mean Fluke Rule player will lose three points on his PER the following season. (Nice Fluke Rule players are similarly affected).

Fluke Rule, Class of 2009-10
Player 2008-09 PER 2009-10 PER 2010-11 PER Change
Corey Maggette 16.91 20.40 15.89 -4.51
Jamal Crawford 15.15 18.50 14.29 -4.21
Nazr Mohammed 7.71 19.64 15.98 -3.66
Ben Wallace 12.18 15.84 12.29 -3.55
Sam Dalembert 13.22 16.84 14.10 -2.74
Luke Ridnour 12.95 17.81 15.08 -2.73
Carlos Boozer 17.28 21.42 18.90 -2.52

This year, the other seven players joining Odom in Flukeville are Brad Miller, Tony Allen, Chris Andersen, Earl Boykins, Tyson Chandler, Tony Parker and Chris Wilcox. Miller may not play this year after having microfracture over the summer, but of the other seven we can expect six to decline. Parker and Chandler, who were 28 years old on Dec. 31 of last season, are slightly less susceptible than their older cohorts, but all will be hard-pressed to maintain last season's production.

Fluke Rule, Class of 2010-11
Player Team 2009-10 PER 2010-11 PER Change
Chris Wilcox Det 12.04 18.09 +6.05
Tyson Chandler Dal 12.58 18.45 +5.87
Earl Boykins Mil 12.98 17.62 +4.64
Tony Allen Mem 14.23 18.40 +4.17
Tony Parker SA 16.49 20.44 +3.95
Lamar Odom LAL 15.98 19.50 +3.52
Brad Miller Hou 12.96 16.37 +3.41
Chris Andersen Den 15.88 19.03 +3.15

While the eight players in this season's crop run the gamut from "no freaking way he does that again" (Wilcox) to "potential glaring exception" (Parker), Odom represents a fairly typical Fluke Rule player and it's clear how his numbers could fall back to earth. Last season he blew away his career highs in field-goal percentage, 3-point percentage and TS%. If those revert back to his usual levels -- which is nearly always what happens -- his PER will come along for the ride. The result would still leave Odom as one of the most effective sixth men in the game because of his defense, rebounding, ballhandling and not insignificant scoring. But it's unrealistic to expect him to shoot 70 percent at the rim and drill 38 percent of his 3s.

STEVE BLAKE, PG
Projection: 8.3 pts, 3.5 reb, 4.9 ast per 40 min; 7.54 PER | Player card

• Limited, low-mistake point guard who rarely attacks paint. Good court vision.
• Mediocre defender. Tall and competitive, but lacks strength and footspeed.
• Strictly spots up for 3s offensively. Doesn't push tempo or draw fouls.

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A year ago, the Lakers patted themselves on the back for locking up Blake with a four-year deal. Now, they're staring at the calendar praying for 2014. The damage may have been partly self-inflicted. Blake clearly took his role player status to heart, but was so ridiculously passive on offense that it was hard to justify keeping him on the floor. Two brow-raising stats underscore this: He played 1,581 regular-season minutes without drawing a single basket-and-1, and he made seven baskets at the rim the entire season. By comparison, even Mike Bibby had 25.

Blake wasn't even a successful sniper. While he made a respectable 37.8 percent on 3s, he shot so infrequently that he averaged just 8.1 points per 40 minutes, the second-worst mark among point guards. Even worse, he shot an unfathomably bad 28.8 percent on 2-point shots (Let me repeat that: 28.8 percent. 2-point shots), and drew 30 free throw attempts the entire season to rank dead last among point guards in free throw attempts per field goal attempt.

As a result of all this, he had the fourth-worst PER among point guards. Forget about starting, he'll have to show significant progress just to be an acceptable backup. One suspects he was being a bit too nice last season while trying to fit in with his championship teammates and will look for his offense more this time around. Plus, it's inconceivable that he could shoot that badly on 2s again. On the other hand, he's 31 and has never had a PER above the league average. In 20-20 hindsight, this contract was a bad risk that turned out awful.

SHANNON BROWN, G (FREE AGENT -- UNRESTRICTED)
Projection: 17.7 pts, 4.1 reb, 2.6 ast per 40 min; 13.83 PER | Player card

• High-flier with deep range but fluctuating accuracy. Short for a shooting guard.
• Limited handle, struggles to create and penetrate. Doesn't see floor well.
• Undersized but active defender. Athletic, strong and very effective in 2010-11.

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Brown has many disparate strengths that would suggest a greater overall whole. He's an amazing dunker, he shot 91.1 percent from the line, he can shoot from distance ... and yet, he's basically a generic backup shooting guard. Brown's biggest problem is that his outside shot looks great but doesn't go in as often as you might think. He made 34.9 percent of his 3s and really struggled on long 2s -- he shot just 32.2 percent between 10 and 23 feet. The fact Brown shot so many long 2s instead of 3s also hurt his numbers, and the reliance on 20-footers explains why such a good athlete could have one of the lowest free throw rates at his position.

Brown also struggles to create for himself, lacking a particularly elusive handle and sometimes dribbling himself into bad spots. The upshot is that he scored fairly often (18.2 points per 40 minutes) but not all that efficiently (49th at his position in TS%) and with relatively poor assist and turnover rates.

Defensively, Brown has yet to have his superior leaping translate into average rebounding, but his Synergy numbers last season were outstanding and he held opposing shooting guards to a piddly 10.4 PER. While nothing in his previous track record suggests he's quite this good on defense -- his 2009-10 stats were completely, utterly average -- at the very least he's a solid performer at this end.

MATT BARNES, SF
Projection: 12.8 pts, 8.7 reb, 2.8 ast per 40 min; 13.02 PER | Player card

• Slender combo forward who runs floor well. Good cutter. Lacks strength.
• Erratic outside shooter. Weak ballhandler with high bounce. Poor finisher.
• Tough and energetic. Outstanding rebounder for size. Fouls frequently.

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Barnes missed 29 games but otherwise had perhaps his best pro season as L.A.'s bench energizer, providing easy buckets from all his cuts off the ball to offset another humdrum outside shooting performance. There are better floor spacers -- he made only 31.8 percent of his 3s last season and is at 32.8 percent for his career -- but Barnes converted 64.3 percent of his shots at the rim and has good shot selection. He hardly ever takes long 2s (he had only 29 in 2010-11), and as a result finished 15th among small forwards in both TS% and shooting percentage. Overall, his average of 14.0 points per 40 minutes was healthy production for a secondary offensive player.

Despite his skinny build, Barnes is an outstanding rebounder for a small forward -- he finished fourth at his position in rebound rate -- because he's quick to the ball and pursues every shot. Defensively he's active, ranking in the top third of his position in both blocks and steals, but he's also a bit wild. Barnes gets outmuscled in physical matchups, especially when he tries to play up front, and as a result he fouls like mad. At a whistle every 8.0 minutes, only one small forward was cited more often. He was solid if unspectacular in one-on-one defense, and while he's certainly not a stopper because he's fairly slow for a small forward, he competes and is fairly long.

THEO RATLIFF, C (FREE AGENT -- UNRESTRICTED)
No projection | Player card

• Shot-blocking veteran center with slender build. Runs floor fairly well.
• Has little use in half-court offense. Can't shoot or post up. Bad rebounder.
• Easily overpowered by physical centers. Best in zones or versus pick-and-roll.

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Ratliff played the Lakers' first eight games before a knee injury effectively ended his season; he played only four minutes the rest of the regular season and just one in the playoffs. He's 38 and may not have much left in the tank, especially if the knee injury compromised the quick-leaping ability that is his main redeeming skill.

LUKE WALTON, SF
No projection | Player card

• Combo forward with great court vision but serious back problems.
• Can overpower wings in post but average outside shooter. Good strength.
• Handles ball well but lacks burst on perimeter. Tweener defensively.

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Walton labored through 58 agonizing games while trying to play through back pain, and was wholly unsuccessful in the endeavor. He shot just 32.8 percent from the field, nearly doubled his turnover rate from the previous season, and in 486 minutes he made only six shots at the rim. He would have challenged for the league's lowest free-throw rate had he played a few more minutes, not to mention the worst PER.

If he can shake off the back trouble, Walton still fills a niche as a rugged combo forward who can pass like nobody's business. But after two injury-riddled seasons, his career is in serious jeopardy.

DEVIN EBANKS, SF
No projection | Player card

• Thin, long-armed forward who can handle the ball. Must add strength.
• Aggressive, high IQ performer who willingly defends and rebounds well.
• Tweener between 3 and 4. Needs to improve outside shot.

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Viewed more as a developmental prospect, Ebanks got into 20 games and was good enough that the Lakers have to be curious to see more; in particular, he was able to rebound and attack the rim better than envisioned given his slight frame. It was only 118 minutes, however, and his six D-League games offer a more nuanced view: While Ebanks can get to the basket with his ballhandling skill, he really needs to improve his outside shot because he can't count on the 3-on-2 trips he saw in garbage time with the Lakers. Nonetheless, the Lakers have to be encouraged that a second-round pick performed so well in his chances, and he could see considerably more of them this season.

JOE SMITH, PF (FREE AGENT -- UNRESTRICTED)
No projection | Player card

• Lanky power forward with 18-foot range. Athleticism on decline.
• Smart and has decent mobility but struggles against physical forwards.
• Can make jump hooks around basket but can't establish deep position.

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Smith is 36, only played 69 minutes last season, and scored a grand total of eight points. It's safe to say the end is near, but in the two previous seasons he wasn't that bad. He'll fill the end of somebody's bench this winter, and if injuries create playing time, he could enjoy a Juwan Howard-ish renaissance shooting 15-footers and giving hard fouls.

ANDREW GOUDELOCK, PG
No projection | Player card

• Big point guard with deep shooting range. Struggles to penetrate and create.
• Defensive liability against quick guards. Size, strength helpful closer to basket.

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A classic triangle point guard who can get out of the way, space the floor and use his size at the defensive end, Goudelock would have been a much better fit if Phil Jackson was still coaching. His deep shooting range should help given the struggles of Steve Blake and Derek Fisher last season, but it's an open question whether Goudelock is good enough in the other phases to merit consistent playing time. He's not going to create off the dribble and he may struggle just as badly as his cohorts defending quick point guards.

ATER MAJOK , F
No projection | Player card

• Raw, long developing player with little game experience.
• Already 24 years old and hardly played in college.

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Majok was a second-round dice roll based on his length and mobility, with the Lakers hoping to stash him in Europe or the D-League and see if he can develop into a real player. Right now he's miles away, and since he's already 24 the odds aren't real strong in his favor.

A Sudanese native whose odyssey has taken him through Egypt, Australia and Connecticut, Majok should benefit from spending an entire season in a structured environment just focusing on learning how to play. Based on where he was picked, if he can be an energy guy at the end of the bench the Lakers will be happy, and it's possible he has enough raw ability to fill that role at some point.

DARIUS MORRIS, G
No projection | Player card

• Tall point guard with good handle and vision. Still learning position.
• Poor outside shooter. Can finish at basket but not an explosive athlete.
• Slender frame, will need to add strength. Length a plus on defense.

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The Lakers love big point guards and Morris was the biggest one in the draft at 6-foot-5. He likes the ball in his hands so he doesn't fit the floor-spacing role of past Lakers point guards, but his ability to create shots for himself and others could prove quite helpful for L.A.'s moribund second unit. Additionally, he has the potential to develop an effective post game against small guards that, combined with his passing skills, could make him an Andre Miller-like threat on the block.

But he has a lot of development left to get to that point. Morris improved dramatically last season but still needs to pound the ball less, make better decisions, improve his jump shot and generally refine his management of the offense. I like him and thought he was great value at No. 41, but he may need some D-League seasoning before he's ready for The Show.

DERRICK CARACTER, F
No projection | Player card

• Wide-bodied big man who can bang. Solid rebounder. Can make midrange J.
• Short for a center. Doesn't block shots. Subpar mobility for a 4. Turnover prone.

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Caracter got a limited cameo in his rookie season as a result of some early-season frontcourt injuries, and showed he belongs in the league by averaging 15.2 points per 40 minutes and flashing a solid mid-range J to complement his wide body. However, he committed far too many turnovers and disappointed on the glass with just an 11.3 rebound rate. Caracter also raised more red flags about his behavior when he was charged with battery during the playoffs after an incident at a New Orleans pancake house.

In three D-League games, Character showed similar traits to the ones displayed on the NBA hardwood, most notably by committing a whopping 13 turnovers in just 60 minutes. In the big picture, he's good enough to stay in the league if he stays on the good side of the law, but because he's small for a 5 and not terribly mobile for a 4, it's always going to be at the back end of the rotation.

tbrr and maybe heretical i wish every season ran from beginning of december - late april and was like 60 games, btw. was thinking about that today.

― clay, Tuesday, November 29, 2011 12:38 AM (14 hours ago) Bookmark Permalink

yeah this would be great

you football guys... smh

A 60-game season would ensure fewer of those lackadaisical games you see in December and January. But instead of compressing the time frame by two full months, it might be nicer to get rid of those 4-games-in-6-days road trips.

NUGGETS IN CHINA

also:

everyone brainstorm a better thread title for when ilx goes back up

it's sad the heat will not win a game this year.

Blake Griffin would beat Kevin Durant at arm wrestling.

naw v-shasty j.r. smiths nuts all up in your mouth

METTA WORLD PEACE, SF

wait, i can't change my username right?

if we have to re-register for ilx i call dibs on METTA WORLD PEACE, SF

dayo i think the nba thread title should involve players who can actually play in the nba

metta world peace on earth, goodwill to ballers

meta World B. Free. Peace out.

now begins the MARK JACKSON era

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru_vVNekSB4

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Boston offered Rondo & Jeff Green to OKC for Westbrook & KPerkins after last season's playoffs. OKC was not interested, sources say.
32 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Retweeted by @NBAonESPN

thunder wise to turn that one down

not sure it would help boston that much anyway. weird proposal.

well westbrook > rondo and perkins and green are pretty much a wash i'd say

lot of talk today about cp3 dealings - clippers, celtics are supposedly the most likely destinations - otoh another writer just got a scoop saying NOLA won't trade him so long as the NBA owns the team

chris paul + blake would be pretty insane

his "heart is new orleans" but we all now how that goes

lol, you guys

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7297170/sources-new-jersey-nets-prep-big-trade-offer-dwight-howard-orlando-magic

this is like if you had a lamborghini and someone was like "i'm going to make you a big offer for this lamborghini" and it was a BMW and two oranges

I guess taking back turkoglu becomes "we'll also spend a Saturday afternoon helping you clean your garage."

lot of talk today about cp3 dealings - clippers, celtics are supposedly the most likely destinations - otoh another writer just got a scoop saying NOLA won't trade him so long as the NBA owns the team

is CP3 an upgrade over rondo? both are great.

CP3 to clippers is lol, (a) because lol clippers; (b) haha to NYK; and (c) the possibility of clippers > LAL is the lol-est of lol's.

@eryngradwell
Eryn Gradwell
Kyle Singler will stay in Spain rather than join the Detroit Pistons. He was taken by the Pistons with the 33rd pick in the #NBA draft (AP)
17 minutes ago via web

I too would take a guaranteed contract over the crapshoot of being a 2nd rounder, especially on a crap team.

I too would spend my early 20s traveling Spain as a professional athlete over living in Detroit.

yes, singler SO OTM

also i think he's secretely trying to goad detroit into just outright not signing him

seems like that'd make sense for a lot of this year's 2nd round picks. why wait to sign in a foreign league if you don't have a guaranteed contract waiting for you at the end of the lockout?

have we not signed nene yet WTF, pat riley?

is CP3 an upgrade over rondo? both are great.

cp3 is a pretty significant upgrade over rondo, as much as i love rondo - he's probably the second-best defensive 1 in the game (to rondo) and on offense can do anything rondo can do but better

wow so many rondos in that post

word is cp3 would not sign an extension with the Cs anyway, so that deal is probably done

i think everyone is speculating sign + trade so he can get more cash

i have no idea why he wouldn't want to go there -- i guess they're old but they're one of the best run orgs in the business. unless he really wants to play for the clippers.

hi, i made a meme

http://i.imgur.com/yL9jG.jpg

idk i don't really blame him, their future doesn't look great beyond the next couple years and who knows how long doc'll want to coach

he'd make more sense in the celtics current system than westbrook, mostly due to his defense - although they do need another player who can create (and make) his own shot

paul would assassinate people on this year's celtics -- they already get such an insane amount of open shots. if they got him i think they'd be the favorites in the east.

yeah i probably agree

but i'm not sure if they'll get him this season

if i'm the hornets/the nba idk if i'd want rondo back -- you have to have a very specific team around him (i.e. one that can convert all is passes into assists, bcuz he's not really scoring)

btw did you guys hear the turkish team d-will played for RETIRED HIS JERSEY last night?

xp right

thought that was so dope

touched by the hand of god

is there a definitive list of all the players who can't come back this season. I mean the entirety of the denver nuggets, but who else?

The Nugs, and Aaron Brooks

That's about it.

idk i don't really blame him, their future doesn't look great beyond the next couple years and who knows how long doc'll want to coach

he'd make more sense in the celtics current system than westbrook, mostly due to his defense - although they do need another player who can create (and make) his own shot

― k3vin k., Wednesday, November 30, 2011 6:57 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Permalink

doc signed a 5-year extension so there should be no reason he wouldn't be there as long as paul.

oh ok i forgot he signed an extension, i thought this was his last year on contract for some reason

still celtics will be a middling team in 3-4 years probs

WTF we haven't signed nene yet?

@blakegriffin
Blake Griffin
Got convinced to try a vegan meal tonight by every other person I meet in LA. #occupyfakemeat
15 minutes ago via Echofon

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/10271/lebron-durant-emerge-from-gridiron-unhurt

biggest news basically

so, there's news.

• deron williams will not sign an extension of his contract with the nets. doesn't matter what they do to bolster the team. he might re-sign with them, i guess, but not now. radically changed what nets have to offer to someone who must be persuaded to sign a long-term extension following a sign-and-trade (i.e., dwight howard)

• mike miller had hernia surgery. so it's basically certain he'll be amnestied by the heat. it also means he isn't going to be useful in a trade package (which is what's been suggested (him and haslem for nene).

• nene apparently is going to get a max-contract from someone? if that's so, and if he wants that over championships, he'll be playing for a mid-level team (despite the fact that he's said he wants to play for either miami or dallas, and win titles).

More than a year and a half after his last surgery and the latest estimate is that Greg Oden will be ready to play (maybe) in January. Can't wait to see how his free-agency goes.

at this point he's a near minimum-contract guy, i think.

and here it is: CP3 determined to play for NYK

gahhh

nooo cp3 don't make me hate u

wowwwwwwwwwww

honestly i'm not sure i can hate a knicks team with cp3, melo & amare -- amare is prob my favorite athlete right now behind THE REAL BLACK MAMBA (de'anthony thomas)

i'm going to have to summon up all of my intense hatred of new york sports fans to pull that one off

now if nene could just similarly force his way to the heat . . .

oh i'll be able to hate them just fine ('cept for a'mare, obv.).

interesting eastern-conference. NYK -- Heat rivalry is back.

is it even possible for the knicks to pull this off?

i liked the heat-knicks rivalry renewal a lot more when it was amare + homegrown knicks vs the monolothic heat transformer -- there's no narrative to a knicks-heat superstar rivalry

well, sure there is. two powerhouse, star-heavy teams that represent the "new" NBA of player-driven rosters.

Paul has reached out to Orlando Magic center Dwight Howard(notes) recently, encouraging Howard to find a way for the two to play together, sources told Yahoo! Sports.

apparently chris paul took up crack during the lock out. what a shame.

i should've said that there's no interesting narrative

is it even possible for the knicks to pull this off?

― v-shasty, Thursday, December 1, 2011 2:39 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

it won't be in two years but i bet it is right now. scary.

btw there is no way that this is happening unless the knicks are able to grind the entire league basically to a halt by trying to put a three-way deal over on every single team in the league

the difference between this and the amare sitaution as it pertains to the knicks is that the knicks truly have nothing left to trade. with melo the hornets were "shopping for a better offer" but they still had a pretty good thing in their pocket w/ the knicks role player sampler that they ended up taking.

truly i can't forsee anyway that the knicks could pull off a trade for cp3 unless the hornets just flush their entire franchise down the toilet by taking... who? landry jones, iman shumpert and non-lottery picks from now until 2020?

by amare i mean carmelo obv

amd also obv nuggets not hornets

Nets can offer D Will a 5th year and more than anyone else in free agency. An extension would be 4 years, $78 million ; FA signing with any team but Nets 4 years, $75 million; FA with Nets 5 years, $100 million. It's a no-brainer not to extend.

I still expect him to resign with the Nets as $25 million is not to be sneezed at.

yeah i think this is mostly a formality. i think BIG PROK will in the d will gamble.

plus if he's gonna be on the move AFTER howard and chris paul, idk what team is gonna be left for him.

So if Paul really wants to go to New York, he can go -- as long as he's willing to give up, at a minimum, forty million dollars to do it. (The same, incidentally, applies for Deron Williams or Dwight Howard.)

I have no idea how super teams are possible with this new cba unless the owner wants to pay a jillion dollars in luxury tax?

i guess dolan might, but good lord

it's funny how much the decision will hang over lebron. if he had just done everything the same minus that, he would've been able to stand in pretty stark contrast to these idiots who bring the entire league to a standstill trying to get to only one team

I have no idea how super teams are possible with this new cba unless the owner wants to pay a jillion dollars in luxury tax?

there's actually a hard cap, tho no-one's calling it that. i think it's fixed at roughly 74.5M.

WallaceNBA_ESPN Michael Wallace -- Keeping my fingers crossed this CP3 'MeloDrama' doesn't lead to owners backing off that handshake CBA deal.

chris paul poised here to potentially become history's greatest monster.

and why would it?

THAT IS AN UNUSUAL INTERVIEW QUESTION AND IT IS UNCALLED-FOR.

just trust me that chris paul is about to become history's greatest monster.

if he does form a nyk superteam junior varsity squad I will agree with you

i like the notion that the NYK would be the "junior-varsity" of superteams.

certainly fitting, since they -- organizationally -- are a total clusterscrew, which benefits only because players want to play in NYC.

Al_Iannazzone
The Record just learned Deron Williams WILL NOT Sign an extension with the Nets and will play the year out. Link coming shortly.

yeah, it's cuz he can get more $ as a FA even if he re-signs w/ the nets

there's still something kinda gross to me about the way prohkorov will have gamed the system via the new cba -- the nets aren't d will's "original team" and i'm not sure what good it does for competitive balance to allow a guy to trade for a player solely for the purpose of signing him to a max deal and allow that team to offer him $25m more than anyone else

still celtics will be a middling team in 3-4 years probs

― k3vin k., Thursday, December 1, 2011 3:51 AM (19 hours ago) Bookmark Permalink

celtics literally have three players under contract next season, if they got paul, traded pierce and rondo, they could have a whole new team!

um... it's been like that with free agent contracts since the last CBA, maybe even before. Kobe would have given up like $40mn if he'd left LA for anywhere else.

Sign and trades are also capped - anyone trading for D-Will or Howard this season can only sign him to a one-year extension, so either one will just opt out and have to be signed as a FA (w/ Bird rights, though).

i read one summery of the new cba but i feel like it wasnt that comprehensive

um... it's been like that with free agent contracts since the last CBA, maybe even before. Kobe would have given up like $40mn if he'd left LA for anywhere else.

well yes, but i'm pretty sure that they significantly increased the difference b/w how much money you can get from your own team vs how much you can get from your existing team

I think it actually got smaller, because of the amounts and years.

And the money hit for Paul/Howard is offset by increased endorsements in a bigger media market. D-Will not so much, but maybe he really just hates Avery Johnson that much.

lol you guys

The Knicks can't even trade a first round draft pick until 2018.

wow

Nuggets will receive the Knick's first-round pick two years after the Knicks surrender their 2012 first-round pick to the Rockets (Carmelo Anthony trade 02-22-11)

Nuggets have option to swap 2016 first-round picks with the Knicks (Carmelo Anthony trade 02-22-11)

Rockets receive the Knicks' 2012 first-round pick (top 5 protected in 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015, if not conveyed by 2015 then the Rockets will receive the Knicks 2015 and 2016 second-round picks) (Tracy McGrady trade 02-18-10)

though i guess as long as the knicks don't have have a top 5 pick in next year's draft, some of those first round picks become tradeable

i think it's increasingly likely that a team tries to pull a d will here

celtics literally have three players under contract next season, if they got paul, traded pierce and rondo, they could have a whole new team!

c's were supposedly clearing cap space to make a run at dwight howard.

Poor dwight. So much talent, so little help.

he'd do well in boston!

Daniel, all the good players can't play for teams that you like and it wouldn't even be fun for you if they did.

hm.

I'm a Mavericks fan and I'm kind of excited for the new luxury tax era - curious if Cuban can learn to build a team without absurd sign and trades.

itt J.R. Smith exploded in his return to action in China, dropping 52 points, 22 rebounds and seven steals.

looool

NBA releases Dec. 25 sked: Celts-Knicks, Heat-Mavs, Bulls-Lakers, Magic-Thunder, Clips-Warriors.

heat mavs rematch on day one! clippers vs warriors!

golden age for the NBA; (a handful of) great teams, great rivalries.

I've always thought a championship rematch opening day is the way to go why don't all sports do that

Hey so internet personality dayo brought it to my attention that we might want to get going on our annual ILH Fantasy League, and if we do want to do that it'd probably have to happen sooner rather than later. iirc M Bison is usually in charge? who all plays? who's around right now? can we get in contact with the regulars? will it be just me vs dayo?

help a fantasy baller out.

NBA releases Dec. 25 sked: Celts-Knicks, Heat-Mavs, Bulls-Lakers, Magic-Thunder, Clips-Warriors.

heat mavs rematch on day one! clippers vs warriors!

― clay, Friday, December 2, 2011 2:31 PM (3 hours ago)

i'm crying tears of pure joy atm

http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/107/432/original/i_hug_that_feel.png?1300595876

??

oh just saying i felt the same way? maybe this meme is used to make fun of people and i'm just dense idk.

if so i am "repurposing" the jpg to mean i literally know how you feel and feel/felt similarly.

haaa oh the link is broken for me so it redirects to this page that says "fail: your link is broken" or whatever so i thought you were calling my post a fail haha

grant hill says great chance he'll resign with suns, which i assume has implications for steve nash's desire to stay with phoenix.

it should really be pointed out over and over again to every basketball fan that grant hill would've been probably a top 10-15 all-timer if his ankles had cooperated.

yerp

in favor of fantasy league, I will investigate tomorrow

http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/hedo-turkoglu-somehow-comes-out-of-lockout-50-mill,26788

ball

k buttheads, renewed this league, ID# is 59595, password is ilhoops1112

how many slots are there?

i havent played fantasy bball before but i'd like to give it a shot if theres an opening

we always need more ppl

yeah it's open to anyone

http://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba/59595

tentative draft date, next sunday, dec 11, 3:00 PM CST

plz to request changes if nec

There was a problem
There is not room in this league if all teams from last year return. To join, get the commissioner to increase the maximum number of teams, or remove teams that will not be returning. (Error #638)

CONTRACTION

oh word lemme fix that

*charlotte bobcats u*

thanking u

*charlotte bobcats u*

irl lol'd at this no idea why

http://i.imgur.com/EgcVZ.png

^_^

that only tells you that the heat aren't likely to get either of their top center choices (nene or dalembert). and oden's a restricted free-agent, anyway, so he isn't likely coming to miami.

i'm beginning to accept that we'll likely be settling for kwame brown (and maybe battier, too!, tho i'm not sure he fits our needs very well).

You're going 0-66 anyway

i know, i know.

wait, even with battier?

c'mon. with battier, i think we're at least 2 -- 64.

if the heat could get oden that would be.... very interesting

dude was one of the best players in the nba outright when he was healthy two years ago

granted it was like 20 games but his PER was sick

his per was good but he was also fouling out in like 20mins, obvs he could be amazing but you know lol

yeah -- i think the heat would have the ability to control his minutes a bit more (would help w/ fouling AND health) because they basically played w/o a center all of last year anyway

it prob doesn't make sense for them to get him tho cuz they need another shooter PLUS a big man that they can actually rely on. dalembert or, shit, kwame makes more sense than oden, i think. idk i'm not totally clear on how things are working now but i don't think the heat could get a battier/tayshaun type + oden + another big, and they would need insurance on oden, so

i wouldn't worry much about it. oden (understandably; admirably) has loyalty to portland for sticking with him through his injuries, and portland appears willing to match any offer the heat could make. and, of course, even if he did go to miami, there's his perpetually high risk of injury.

the heat could sign battier and brown, and that's what will likely happen.

kwame could be worse... he's a big, mobile body at least. and that's an upgrade on everyone else they were trotting out last year aside from joel

lol kwame will have a v long career of teams talking themselves into him

o jeez, kept reading "Odom" for "Oden" and being all sorts of confused. lol forgot about that guy.

as i understand it, brown's basically a poor-man's samuel dalembert.

sp that's poverty-level, btw.

obvs just trade bron for howard, this is not hard to figure out people

oh, hi ice c?rm.

wise proposal imo

xp

ha duh how did i not figure that out already

lol kwame will have a v long career of teams talking themselves into him

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, December 4, 2011 1:12 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

otm, is anybody gonna want kwame after what kobe said about him

also in v impt spurs news, we are apparently talking to Caron butler which to me says "we want to amnesty the shit out of Richard Jefferson but only if we can find a suitable replacement"

uh, we don't "want" kwame, but we'll take him, i guess.

oh ok that's who it is--i was thrown because you started a music thread

was the thread titled, "songs to play when miami trades bron for howard"?

srsly i know i keep saying this but howard/wade/bosh is an instant championship, they keep basically the same talent level as w/bron while turning a structurally unsound team into a perfectly balanced one - its a no brainer!

oh ok that's who it is--i was thrown because you started a music thread

― cad, Sunday, December 4, 2011 1:15 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Permalink

haha

plus u cld talk Orlando into giving you jameer or something else bc u know U R GIVING THEM LEBRON

its a win win for both teams and NEEDS TO HAPPEN

why not bosh for howard?

it isn't equal value, but neither is the guy with no-knees from the lakers, and that's the current no. 1 proposal.

oh, yeah, also orlando could trade howard for that center guy on the nets.

orlando will get v good offers for howard if hes on the market

bosh, bynum etc are not gonna get it done

but he is on the market! he's made clear he's leaving.

i think i heard a CP3 for howard rumor, but that makes no sense, since CP3 is trying to dictate his new team, too.

hes not carmelo, were talking a perennial mvp candiate at the harest position to fill

but he is on the market! he's made clear he's leaving.

― Daniel, Esq., Sunday, December 4, 2011 1:22 PM (43 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

yeah sure but theres still tons of time is the thing

it's not a perfect analogy to carmello, but there are some parallels suggesting a team can't just bide its time and expect maximum value.

CP3, howard, melo plz

the cp3 sweepstakes is kind lol but mostly sad because his days as an elite player are v numbered

so i guess what you're saying is that the joel anthony-for-dwight howard rumor i heard isn't a realistic deal.

too bad.

it's not a perfect analogy to carmello, but there are some parallels suggesting a team can't just bide its time and expect maximum value.

― Daniel, Esq., Sunday, December 4, 2011 1:24 PM (48 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

well they wont get value unless they get bron, but theyll be able to get a sweet gift basket of young players/draft picks/lesser allstars - when howard moves unless its for bron itll totally be in like a seven team trade just to get all the pieces lined up

but there will still have to be a major centerpiece. "young players/draft picks/lesser allstars" is hard to sell to your crushed fan-base. and who would that centerpice be? if it's andrew bynum, he's a nice player but that's thin gruel.

yeah i mean theyll totally get hosed, theres no way to move someone that good and not, unless youre getting back like one of the three other guys who are as good, but that never seems to happen - seems like the lakers dont really have the pieces to make it happen unless... they shipped kobe too !!!

now that would be interesting

I would be very very happy to see bynum get traded from the lakers

lol kobe's got the biggest contract in the league, how would you even begin to make an offer for him

idk and tbh im not sure what the deal w/the new cba is, also w/everyone getting an amnesty chip salary dumps arent gonna be as popular this year maybe making those multi team deals less likely

not sure if this is like a real thing or w/e

SebastianPruiti SebastianPruiti
Chandler to the Nets? Brook Lopez at the 4? Coached by Avery Johnson who played with Duncan and Robinson? I like it...
2 minutes ago

I LIKE IT, TOO.

as long as it doesn't mean nene to the mavs, i mean.

feel like okc is coming out of the west this year

regardless of where chandler lands, last years mavs were total lightning in a bottle

yeah, OKC has talent. question is whether dallas can hold it together (tho they're getting old).

lol so you're saying that dirk nowitski isn't the second coming of larry bird?

lol i love dirk but srsly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhnRtgBGMl4

there you are.

haha love that joe got unmasked due to a Howard 4 Bron post on the ILH thread perfect

;)

would have been even easier if you suggested trading wade for howard.

if you suggested trading wade and bron for howard, i wouldn't have known it was you.

im totally over trading wade now im all abt trading bron, just feel like it would right the narrative of the whole decision fiasco

would suck for bron tho!

bet he would get free disney world passes tho

hes just gonna have to deal w/that

bet they would let him be a voice in a pixar movie

he could just buy disney world and live in it.

its all abt the perks

it would be cool to try and sleep on space mountain while it's moving.

lebron james presents epcot center, and its just exhibits about ladies he's boned in different countries he's been in THINK ABT IT

I don't want to visit Epcock.

paugasol Pau Gasol
Great workout with @kevinlove and @russwest44 ! I can't wait to start working out with my team and face this season full of motivations!
2 Dec

replete with motivations!

by "my team," is pau referring to the lakers or the team the lakers will trade him to?

yes.

pau's going to be a great addition to the raptors.

hey j0rdan or whoever has insider, would you mind posting hollinger's player profiles for the blazers today?

sorry to everybody else in the thread who has to deal with 20 pages of text about nicolas batum.

wait, who's j0rdan?

(i mean, what name is j0rdan posting under in this temporary forum?)

aqui

yeah clay i got you

okay, v-shasty is j0rdan. i can't keep things straight with the temporary forum names.

http://i.imgur.com/5bYPj.png
http://i.imgur.com/xOALK.png
http://i.imgur.com/GDHgv.png
http://i.imgur.com/N47wJ.png
http://i.imgur.com/tfmZh.png

wow so professional! thanks!

http://i.imgur.com/jNyOQ.png
http://i.imgur.com/rCFc3.png
camby:
http://i.imgur.com/8x9DQ.png
http://i.imgur.com/WnolP.png
http://i.imgur.com/JGisz.png

http://i.imgur.com/8Yg2n.png
http://i.imgur.com/EeYey.png
http://i.imgur.com/Sq93n.png
http://i.imgur.com/rAycJ.png

and that's all

hollinger is really a national hero

has he ever written about older players?

lol @ the one for camby

has he ever written about older players?

― k3vin k., Sunday, December 4, 2011 5:30 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah he posted his celtics profiles on 11/29

his thing in the okc preview about how durant sucks at getting open was revalatory

lol jord

looool

A+

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/images/smiliesb/Tip-Hat.gif

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XimOh2AYlL8/TA2fbGdsvuI/AAAAAAAAFhQ/2f0LIVhEMcg/s1600/kevin-garnett-looking-down.gif

His defensive value, however, is more than offset by the fact that he is the single worst offensive player in basketball. Instead of his name and number, Anthony's jersey should have just said "AVOID." For the most part, that's what the Heat did. His 4.9 usage rate was not only the lowest in the NBA, it was the lowest in the league in nearly two decades.

you'll be singing a different tune when we sign KWAME BROWN

kev, i saw this on slate today and thought of you and your interest in the nba's history. lots of great looking old essays/stories here that i'm excited to dig through. woody allen on earl the pearl!

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/longform/2011/12/nba_season_starting_amazing_stories_about_basketball_players_from_longform_org.html

has he ever written about older players?

― k3vin k., Sunday, December 4, 2011 5:30 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

there was a great piece abt the best shooters of all time, hint its steve nash

wait who was it

has he ever written about older players?

― k3vin k., Sunday, December 4, 2011 5:30 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

there was a great piece abt the best shooters of all time, hint its steve nash

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, December 4, 2011 7:35 PM (3 hours ago)

yah i linked it like a month ago ;)

sarge: http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y344/MichaelAnthonyHunt/more%20gifs/rnd-rudy.gif

i think that's a guy applauding anyway

kev, i saw this on slate today and thought of you and your interest in the nba's history. lots of great looking old essays/stories here that i'm excited to dig through. woody allen on earl the pearl!

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/longform/2011/12/nba_season_starting_amazing_stories_about_basketball_players_from_longform_org.html

― clay, Sunday, December 4, 2011 7:25 PM (4 hours ago)

thx bro!

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/images/smiliesb/Blush2.gif

hollinger can be BRUTAL in some of these profiles...he's consistently otm and hilarious

yeah, i laughed at this part of his malik allen profile:

+ May be league's least athletic player. Terrible rebounder. Can't create shots.

James Jones

+ One-dimensional corner 3-point shooter. Has no idea he's allowed to dribble.

+ Poor athlete, but has good size for 3 and plays passable defense. Bad rebounder.

The ultimate Johnny One-Note, Jones did nothing but shoot 3s from the corner, except for that one time he tried a shot at the basket. No, seriously -- he took one shot at the basket all season. In 1,551 minutes.

Needless to say, Jones had the league's lowest rate of shot attempts at the rim last season (see chart). In a related note, Jones had 98.6 percent of his baskets assisted, the most of any perimeter player except Brian Cardinal.

Jones' other stats similarly highlight his offensive extremes. He had the second-lowest turnover ratio, because all he had to do was catch and shoot. He took five shots inside 15 feet all year. He led the NBA in secondary percentage, because nearly all his shots were 3s, and was second among small forwards in TS%. He was last among small forwards in usage rate, because he just stood in the corner all game.

Somehow, Jones drew a decent number of free throw attempts, as he has become very good at pump-faking the 3 and drawing contact -- most memorably on the play that led to his playoff fracas with Paul Pierce.

yeah, i laughed at this part of his malik allen profile:

+ May be league's least athletic player. Terrible rebounder. Can't create shots.

― OOOO, Monday, December 5, 2011 12:03 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

A friend and I have a joke re Malik Allen dating back to his first summer league ^_^

sorry ice cr?m your dream scenario is no more heat talking to mavs about a bron for jj barea trade.

tough but fair

http://i.imgur.com/kxIWz.png

lol

"Source"

source: were going to cut him so deep thank jesus

dammit it is 1:25PM EST and the heat still haven't announced the signing of nene (no surname) and dwight howard wtf?

hay guys i hear there's gonna be basketball again!

and amnesty international is apparently involved somehow?

(smuggles gilbert arenas away from a bloodthirsty riotous crowd in a black suv)

really no news this morning or early afternoon on signings or player movement. i know it's early, but this is an extremely compressed signing period. i'm guessing we'll start hearing about these matters (e.g., dwight howard for joakim noah) later today.

JUST KIDDING

well can that stuff happen yet? thought it had to wait until lockout was officially over.

they can wait til the trade deadline to move howard or anyone else for that matter haha xp

ah, but will they?

im not ready to be trolled, still adjusting to the reality of a basketball season

lol

the article does make some sense, if you assume that bynum is the key return player in any trade for CP3 or howard. only one bynum to trade.

Lakers missed out on the championship series last post-season. Bryant has no knees left to speak of. In L.A. that means they are definitely thinking about rebuilding asap. I'm pretty sure they'd take Howard of CP3, if given a choice. Dominating centers have always been L.A.'s preferred building block.

and the howard-to-lakers rumor has been there for a while.

but, shockingly, new jersey has good pieces to trade, lots of cap space, and a fine player (dwill) who is friends with howard and who would like to play together. so . . . . .

I'm pretty sure they'd take Howard of CP3, if given a choice. Dominating centers have always been L.A.'s preferred building block.

― Aimless, Monday, December 5, 2011 2:59 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

also howard is like 1mx more valuable going forward

but, shockingly, new jersey has good pieces to trade, lots of cap space, and a fine player (dwill) who is friends with howard and who would like to play together. so . . . . .

― Daniel, Esq., Monday, December 5, 2011 2:01 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

i may be mistaking, but it appears as if you just called one of the lopez twins "a good piece to trade"

the nets had good peices to trade, that's how they got deron williams

why isn't brook lopez a good trading piece?

hes like an ok player, dwight howard is the 2nd best player

at some point someone will offer an actually legit young player and/or a v top draft pick

and no bynum is not actually legit

i'd take, like, kentucky's entire line up over brook lopez. i'd let howard walk and aim for the lottery over going "welp, i guess it's brook lopez then!"

i don't disagree, but at the moment, those two players -- lopez and bynum -- are the "centerpieces" of a potential trade for d. howard. in the abstract, yeah, someone should give a superstar in their prime for howard, but that's not what's happening at the moment.

chicago also wants in on the howard trade discussions, BTW. they really are offering noah and other pieces. i think what i read was "any two players on chicago's roster besides rose."

brook lopez was a 20 & 10 center two years ago

know he stunk it up last year but he's one of the few legit 7 footers in the liggue

I think orlando should trade dwight for kevin love

just to stick it to dwight

even if it didn't work out monetarily

sorry dwight, you're stuck in cold minnesota

DWIGHT HOWARD FOR MIKE MILLER AND JUWAN HOWARD

fair value!

im gonna go out on a limb and say today is the only day of the season that the espn nba page features a montage including greg oden and vince carter

cut to three months from now when they both tear their acls during warmups of a blazers / Knicks game

(u know Vince will end up 10th man on the Knicks you just know)

for the first day that NBA teams can talk to players about contracts and moving teams, things seem very quiet.

too quiet.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/05/sports/basketball/stephon-marbury-finding-success-and-serenity-in-china.html

I'm happy Marbury got his shit together somewhat.

aw that's a nice story!

you guys, can I talk about college hoops for a hot second

the #25 team in the country right now is... Harvard

o_O

a new era has dawned.

they beat two good ass teams down in cancun or aruba or wherever they were

i read this as, "they beat two good 'ass-teams.'"

well, florida state is a good ass team and a good, ass-team. so it fits.

they beat defending champs Utah, Florida State and Central Florida

totally boggling over here

maybe its just like some other school that has the same name

university of Harvard at dallas

or that place method man and redman went

only starbury could go to china

marbury uses a lot of semicolons when he speaks!

haha derrick rose sucks http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/05/a-new-challenge-for-rose-and-the-bulls

if you can read that entire post you should prob just drive off a cliff

idk the expected outcome of that decision is p inefficient as far as remaining alive goes

sry that was a poorly formed joke, but u get the idea

if you can read that entire post you should prob just drive off a cliff

― v-shasty, Monday, December 5, 2011 8:48 PM (20 minutes ago)

??

shit is boring & long, dawg -- hollinger's shit using SYNERGY SPORTS stats is cool cuz dude is funny & cynical

otherwise it reads like a term paper

lol it wasn't that long

i only slept 2 hours last night

shasty! no es bueno

as ur mod I instruct u to get more sleep than that

the video linked in it was pretty good and only took about a minute to watch

-_-

okay 1:40. watch it and go to bed j0rdan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO3Ug1J3TGw

guess the player!

• Awful shooter with penchant for blowing layups. Disastrous decision-maker.

would be kinda dope seeing if you could guess which team was being profiled just from the three bullet points for each player

aw i read that today but i cant remember the player, it's all a blur

ha is that someone who gets actual playing time

lol yes

m bison?

jonny flynn?

ha, good guess but no

i'll narrow it down -- the player is actually a quality NBA player with a projected PER over 15

hmm interesting

lebron lmao

haha otm

brandon jennings

haha, nope

he is an old ilh favorite (i think)

allstar or role player HOFer?

role player HOFer

oh wait i just remembered!

as someone who has spent some time watching this particular guy that bullet was so otm

camby

naw camby doesn't play enough offense to make that many disastrous decisions

gdamn it

this is killing me!!!

i give up

just think about it....who do you see on a fastbreak....he's so close to the basket......omg what the fuck how did he not finish that?!?

MOST PLAYERS

no there is def a very specific one -- & i was never even a fan of this player's team

ha i read this the other day too but forget

hollinger on possible cp3 and superman trade scenarios - the point he makes abt boston possibly being willing to rent paul is vv interesting as is his final trade concept

Chris Paul, Dwight Howard trade ideas
Knicks? Lakers? Nets? Heat? Let's break down some possible deals for CP3 and D12

By John Hollinger

There's what we know, and what we speculate. The speculation is about where Chris Paul and Dwight Howard might end up. The part we know, however, is that it almost certainly won't be New Orleans or Orlando.

As our Chris Broussard reported earlier this week, the Hornets plan on offering Paul an extension and trading him if he doesn't accept it. Although it's financially more lucrative for him to accept the extension, it appears he won't. Meanwhile, our intrepid Marc Stein says Orlando GM Otis Smith is already sounding out potential trade partners for Howard.

As Broussard reported, Paul's first choice is to join the Knicks as a free agent, but that's the least rewarding option financially. As I outlined earlier this week, even in the best-case scenario, the Knicks can offer him only a four-year deal worth about $57 million; in comparison, he can make $73 million over four years with a team that has full max-contract room under the cap ($17.18 million) or $98 million over five years by staying with the Hornets.

Even that $57 million scenario presumes a total demolition job by the Knicks that leaves them with just two players under contract; in any scenario in which the Knicks want to keep any other player besides Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudemire, millions less are available for CP. As our Tom Haberstroh put it, the Knicks with just Paul, Stoudemire and Anthony would have 3 of the best 13 players in the NBA ... and 12 of the 12 worst around them.

What's true for CP in New York is equally true for Howard, sans the wedding toast. He seems to be angling for relocation just as much as Paul but faces the same obstacles to a Big Apple endgame.

Moreover, money is only the second obstacle for both. The first is that the Hornets and Magic would likely try to trade Paul and Howard, respectively, long before either became a free agent. New rules on extend-and-trade deals, however, may inhibit them from getting full value.

(At least that's what the day-to-day leadership in New Orleans wants to do. However, in this case, this could get political because the NBA owns the team, and the last thing it wants to see -- in light of the competitive balance issue -- is another star player strong-arming a trade or another "Superfriends" team forming. Moreover, it's unlikely a sale would be completed in time to allow the new owners to deal Paul before the trade deadline, meaning this will be the league's call.)

Because a team acquiring Howard or Paul would want some assurance that he'll stick around, each can exert some control over his destination. Trading one or the other as a one-year rental is likely to get far less in return.

Nonetheless, let's walk through the possibilities. If Paul and/or Howard is indeed traded, here are the ones that make the most sense both because they are destinations where they might agree to stick around and because they send the requisite goods back (or remove them, in some cases -- you'll notice a lot of these trades involve simultaneously dumping as many bad contracts as possible).

Side note: I didn't list it here, but one consideration that will likely be in any deal involving Paul is the league-maximum $3 million going back to the Hornets, given that the team is a ward of the state.

On to the trade scenarios ...

Chris Paul, Trevor Ariza and Aaron Gray to New York for Carmelo Anthony, Toney Douglas, Iman Shumpert and Chauncey Billups.

I continue to believe this is the only plausible way in which Paul can land with the Knicks. The nice thing from the Hornets' perspective is they get a centerpiece star, some young-ish assets and a chance to start over in return. While I made this a two-team deal and included Billups, he'd almost certainly be flipped to a third squad for expiring contracts and/or additional assets -- say, for instance, to Indiana for Darren Collison. The Hornets could take their time with that part, though, and hang on to Billups until the trade deadline.

(Random side note: There's one little free-agency tidbit everyone in Gotham seems to be glossing over in the CP mania -- while the Knicks don't have enough projected cap room for Paul or Deron Williams, New York absolutely has enough cap space to sign 2012 free agent and part-time Big Apple resident Steve Nash.)

As for Paul, one presumes he'd still agree to go to New York even without his fellow wedding toastee, Anthony, especially since he could opt out after the season and sign for the full Bird Rights deal of five years, $99 million with his first-choice destination ... and the Knicks would have enough room to sign another free agent to a large (although not a max) contract.

Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu and Chris Duhon to New Jersey for Brook Lopez, Jordan Farmar, New Jersey's 2012 first-round pick and Houston's 2012 first-round pick.

This is a strong offer that basically puts the Nets a step ahead of every team except one in the Howard sweepstakes -- they can provide a good young center and give the Magic $25 million in cap relief. Remember, too, that in sunny, tax-free Florida, cap space is worth a lot more than it is in other places; while the Magic's history with retaining franchise centers is a bit off-putting, in general they've had great success luring players to take their money.

Plus, New Jersey may be able to further sweeten the pot via a sign-and-trade of Kris Humphries to Orlando; it really costs the Nets nothing since they have to renounce Humphries anyway to do this deal, so it's really just a question of whether the Magic want him at his market price. New Jersey would also need to grant amnesty to Travis Outlaw and waive the non-guaranteed Stephen Graham to make this deal, two bits of housekeeping they are likely to do anyway.

Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu, and Courtney Lee to the Clippers; Eric Bledsoe, DeAndre Jordan, Terrence Williams, Brian Cook, Minnesota's unprotected 2012 first-round pick and a future Clippers' first-round pick (2014 or later) to Orlando; Chris Kaman, the Clippers' 2012 second-round pick and a future Clippers' first-round pick (2016 or later) to Houston.

This is the only potential offer that trumps what New Jersey has on the table, and it also gets Howard to a preferred destination in L.A. The Clippers can offer the Magic similar cap relief to the New Jersey deal, a likely high lottery pick from Minnesota, an athletic young point guard in Bledsoe and a promising big man in Jordan, in addition to a 2012 pick of their own.

The Magic will push hard to get Eric Gordon out of this trade, but I believe L.A.'s offer wins even without Gordon. Jordan isn't quite as good as Lopez, but the draft picks and prospects the Clips can add to this deal are better. Also, Jordan would have to agree to a sign-and-trade to Orlando for this deal to work; there are worse places to end up.

I threw in another wrinkle to this deal and sent Kaman and a first-round pick to Houston for Courtney Lee, but this deal also works if Kaman goes straight to Orlando. Kaman and Lee both have expiring deals, but Houston needs a center a lot more than a wing, while the Clippers would be in the opposite situation following a Howard trade.

Chris Paul, Emeka Okafor and Trevor Ariza to the Clippers for Eric Bledsoe, DeAndre Jordan, Chris Kaman and Minnesota's unprotected 2012 first-round pick.

This is the best deal on the board for the Hornets, allowing New Orleans to dump all their contracts, get a likely high lottery pick and add a young building block center and a developing point guard. As with the Howard deal above, New Orleans will lobby for Gordon and the Clips will resist. Also, as with the one above, Jordan would have to agree to a sign-and-trade.

But the real problem for the Hornets is that this deal is only second in the Clippers' hierarchy, and while in their fantasy world they would get Paul and Howard, back on this planet they almost certainly only have the goods to do one or the other. That means the Clips will only pursue this deal for Paul if Howard is off the table.

Dwight Howard and Hedo Turkoglu to the Lakers for Andrew Bynum, Pau Gasol, Andrew Goudelock and the Lakers' first-round picks in 2012 and 2014.

I like the two offers above better, but the Magic would have to at least consider this one. Ideally L.A. would put Bynum and Lamar Odom in the deal and keep Gasol, but that's not a winning bid because both will be free agents in two years, leaving the Magic going through this whole song and dance all over again.

That's why I think the only deal with the Lakers that really works would be for L.A. to offer Bynum and Pau Gasol, and as good as Howard is, I suspect the Lakers would be reticent to include both bigs in a deal like this.

This also has the side effect of killing the Laker-land fantasy of getting both Howard and Paul by trading Gasol and Bynum. They need Gasol and Bynum just to land Howard, and they aren't getting CP for Lamar Odom.

Chris Paul, Trevor Ariza and Emeka Okafor to the Lakers for Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom, Steve Blake and Devin Ebanks.

I'm not sure Paul is a great fit for how the Lakers want to play, but if the Lakers really wanted him this is the way to do it -- they can offer two starting bigs and a pile of cap relief, essentially allowing the Hornets to completely start over (the imported Lakers and Jarrett Jack would be the only players with guaranteed money in 2012-13).

I'm pretty lukewarm on this one; while Paul would gladly go to L.A., there seem to be better deals out there for both sides. The Lakers would face some fearsome luxury tax hits after this trade and have some major frontcourt depth issues, while the Hornets can get more young talent from other teams.

Chris Paul and Trevor Ariza to Boston; Rajon Rondo, Avery Bradley and Emeka Okafor to Indiana; Brandon Rush, Darren Collison, Paul George, Roy Hibbert, Glen Davis and Boston's first-round pick in 2012 to New Orleans.

We know that CP isn't gung ho about going to Boston, but consider this provocative question from our J.A. Adande: Would Boston rent Paul? The risk isn't as high as for some other squads: Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen both have expiring deals, and the Celtics could be in position to completely start over after this season even if Paul leaves, with only Paul Pierce under contract.

The other piece that needs to happen is Davis agreeing to a sign-and-trade; the LSU product would have a starting gig waiting for him in New Orleans, so I imagine he'd be amenable.

There's also a risk here for the Pacers, who would be cashing in most of their young-talent chips to get Rondo. Ideally they'd do this deal without the de facto Hibbert-Okafor trade, and I'm sure they're very reluctant to part with a rather talented young wingman in George. However, there are several combinations of outgoing players from Indiana that make this deal work (one that's intriguing: including New Orleans-raised Danny Granger), depending on the tastes of the Hornets and Pacers. I have to think they could agree on something if the basic parameters worked for all three sides.

While I think this deal is unlikely, Boston is the one team most likely to pursue Paul without a contract extension, and a three-way deal with Rondo is probably how it would go down.

Chris Paul, Trevor Ariza, Jarrett Jack and Emeka Okafor to Atlanta for Al Horford, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, Kirk Hinrich and Jeff Teague.

Paul wanted to come to Atlanta in the infamous 2005 draft that saw the Hawks instead select Marvin Williams, and our Chris Broussard just reported that Atlanta is still on the list.

So allow me to speak for all Atlantans for a second:

HE'D CONSIDER US!!! HE SAID HE'D CONSIDER US!!!!

Now that we have that out of the way ... it's highly unlikely CP is coming to Atlanta, given that the team is arguably on even shakier financial footing than the Hornets and the Hawks would likely have to trade their best young assets to get him. The best-case scenario for the Hawks is for the deal to cost them only one of Horford and Smith and not both, but it seems like that bid would easily be trumped by some of the others above.

You'll excuse the locals for getting all geeked up about this though, as it's the first time a superstar mentioned wanting to play here since Mt. Mutombo arrived nearly two decades ago.

Chris Paul to Oklahoma City for Russell Westbrook.

Not happening. Move along. Nothing to see here.

Chris Paul, Trevor Ariza and Jarrett Jack to Golden State for Stephen Curry, Monta Ellis, Klay Thompson, Ekpe Udoh and Dorell Wright.

Would CP consider Golden State? The Bay Area is the nation's fourth-largest market and has drawn huge crowds to see awful teams for the past two decades. He'd get to play with a great pick-and-roll finisher in David Lee and stay with his best buddy Jack, and he joins some solid role players on a franchise that is both willing to spend and in a good financial position to do so. Sadly, including Udoh in the deal means we'll never get to see how many times a game CP could hit him in the head with a pass.

This deal would leave the Warriors a bit shorthanded on the wings, especially if Reggie Williams walks. But using the amnesty on either Charlie Bell or Andris Biedrins and topping it off with the "under-cap" MLE should allow them to fill those spots relatively easily; they won't be lacking for volunteers to play with CP, that's for sure.

From New Orleans' end, what's nice about this deal is that it's not a "give-up" strategy -- the Hornets would still have a real team, and a fairly young one at that. The only drawback is that the Warriors can't put any enticing draft picks into the deal because they already owe a future first to New Jersey from the horrendous Marcus Williams trade a couple years ago. Their past two first-rounders -- Thompson and Udoh -- are the best they can do.

Chris Paul and Trevor Ariza to Houston for Chase Budinger, Kyle Lowry, Marcus Morris, Luis Scola, and the better of Phoenix's, Houston's or New York's 2012 first-round pick.

Would CP consider Houston? An offseason magnet for NBA players for reasons that utterly escape me, it's not beyond the realm of possibility ... nor is it insane to think Houston, like Boston, would consider acquiring Paul as a rental.

As for the trade itself, the Rockets have a lot of good assets and no great ones, which is a bit problematic. The draft picks are fairly alluring (I only put one in this deal, but Houston could include as many as four first-rounders), the players less so.

Budinger has the best contract in the league, making $900K each of the next two seasons, but he may not be a long-term starter. The other assets have some value, too: Scola lets the Hornets fill David West's vacated spot; Lowry is an underrated bulldog who can take over for CP at the point; and Morris provides a lottery combo forward to further the rebuilding. Plus, it's fun to watch Houston and New Orleans bat that awful Ariza contract back and forth like a tetherball.

Alas, there are no future All-Stars in this haul for the Hornets, which is why I file it under "highly unlikely." But it won't be from a lack of Houston trying.

AND FINALLY, THE ONE I WANT TO SEE ...

LeBron James to Orlando for Dwight Howard.

The two best players in the league -- traded for each other! This needs to happen.

And really, this trade would help both teams. Miami solves the alpha dog dilemma with Dwyane Wade and James, whose whole was less than the sum last season, and gets a better complementary offensive player to go with Wade, not to mention a devastating defensive presence.

Orlando, meanwhile, would get to keep a superstar in town despite losing Howard, because James has three years left on his deal. Sure, he'd go Decision II on them at the end, but just before he hit free agency they could trade him for a King's ransom (you see what I did there? Six months off and 2,700 words in, and I still can make you cringe).

In the meantime, this is one trade that would instantly transform a lukewarm Florida rivalry into a furious blood feud. The two sides may want a couple additional considerations thrown in to even out the rosters a bit, but the basic LeBron-Howard deal is both fair and works under the cap.

nice try, throwing that one in there at the end

if chris paul got traded for carmelo i would laugh so hard that there's a chance i would die

brian cook is still in the league?

yeah the paul for melo trade is a stroke of genius for sure

nice try, throwing that one in there at the end

― v-shasty, Tuesday, December 6, 2011 12:50 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

btw i am v proud of myself right now for beating hollinger to this concept by like 6 months

btw

Celtics vs Heat, Dec. 27

in miami

oh word

guess the player!

• Awful shooter with penchant for blowing layups. Disastrous decision-maker.

Ron Artest?

I say that because my gf and I are having a drunken 3:30 am discussion about famous NBA fights, for real.

Also I mean metta world peace duh.

nice try, throwing that one in there at the end

― v-shasty, Tuesday, December 6, 2011 12:50 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

btw i am v proud of myself right now for beating hollinger to this concept by like 6 months

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Tuesday, December 6, 2011 12:54 AM (6 hours ago)

dude niiiice!

artest's not a "disastrous decision maker"

courtney lee?

delonte west?

putting all my chips in for delonte

delonte can shoot p good tho

it's tony allen

agh god

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/33748/if-you-have-to-trade-chris-paul

reasonable imho, much higher ceiling than bynum lopez et al

lol imagine tony's revenge against john hollinger

sportsnation otm

http://i.imgur.com/07Ngq.png

oh the hate this board will spews forth if that trade happens would be so amazing

lol what trade its impossible for them to get both, unlikely theyll get one

i saw someone on twitter say this and it was otm (paraphrasing): "not even the lakers could pull off asking for two of the five best players in the NBA while still saying 'our best player isn't available'"

haha yep

Yeah them getting cp3 and D12 is far fetched but I know you guys were a shook just reading about the possibility of it

it occurs to me that another motivation for the heat to move bron for dwight is it prevents other contenders from getting him while parking bron in a spot where hes harmless

it kills me to admit it but that team would be a blast to watch.

http://i.imgur.com/QQVpz.png

eh i think we need some more teams involved here orlando and nola arent gonna want old ass odom and gasol, but someone else might

M. World Piece

yeah, a team with kobe trying to assert his superiority over two other great players that stand around and watch him fling fadeaways at the rim would be a blast to watch.............

not sure we've ever seen that before with the lakers

xp i can't wait for marv albert to say that

Peace* obv, sorry I can't type, albert pujols has me shook

i think kobes would be on good behavior for a while at least

So World Peace is his last name? Both words will appear on his jersey? So awesome.

http://i.imgur.com/BWdAG.png

for some reason the trade machine wouldnt give me a ruling on this one but u get the idea

yeah i would totally ask for his jersey for christmas if he wasn't on the lakers :( xps

http://i.imgur.com/9s2m3.png

http://i53.tinypic.com/30kayow.pnghttp://photobucket.com/redirect?url=http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab250/Zac_Sweeney/NBA%20Photoshops/Jersey%20Switches/ChrisPaulLakers_final.png

http://i.imgur.com/TdmzQ.png

i find the concept of the celtics renting paul for the season VERY INTERSTING particularly since theyd have only paul pierce and lol avery bradley under contract next year lmao

dude i still think it is awesome that hollinger wrote about that trade using basically your rationale

yeah im feelin p good abt that

http://i.imgur.com/Ulxaf.jpg

guys... guys

If Chris Paul wants a ring I think this year's Celtics wouldn't be a bad idea. They'd have to be one of the favorites with what he would add to the mix. Then, if he likes the organization, he could choose to get max money from them; if not, sign where he wants.

Plus it would make me happy.

otm

http://i.imgur.com/9s2m3.png

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Tuesday, December 6, 2011 11:26 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

<3

yeah the celtics could be v good but the hornets become a much worse team, celtics would obv need to sweeten the deal jho posted or add another team or two to the mix

http://i.imgur.com/9s2m3.png

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Tuesday, December 6, 2011 11:26 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

<3

― v-shasty, Tuesday, December 6, 2011 12:38 PM (1 minute ago)

honestly i think it's possible the magic end up being a worse team because of this, i mean defensively for sure

yeah but if dwight is leaving anyway theyre getting 1mx more value than theyll get in any other other trade

and they can retool around bron

tru

poor bron

you guys, can I talk about college hoops for a hot second

the #25 team in the country right now is... Harvard

o_O

― OH NOES, Monday, December 5, 2011 7:26 PM (Yesterday)

guess who u play next ^_^

poor bron

― k3vin k., Tuesday, December 6, 2011 12:42 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Permalink

lol its his karma man *shrug*

(Random side note: There's one little free-agency tidbit everyone in Gotham seems to be glossing over in the CP mania -- while the Knicks don't have enough projected cap room for Paul or Deron Williams, New York absolutely has enough cap space to sign 2012 free agent and part-time Big Apple resident Steve Nash.)

hmmm

nash/amare reunion would be v touching

renting paul for a year might actually be PREFERABLE to locking him up long term as his knees could go any day now

its sad but likely hes not gonna be good for much longer

shut up!!

i dont like it any more than u!

but he like had the surgery last year that brandon roy had a couple years ago

http://celticshub.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/gabe-pruit.jpg

yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

:)

:D

glad the nba is going this route

WindhorstESPN Brian Windhorst
Going to be a lot of big matchups: Heat to play Lakers & Thunder twice. Will play Bulls & Celtics 4 times.

• Gunning guard deluded by past glory. More dangerous on Twitter than on court.
• Upgraded defensive effort. Has good size for point guard but fouls too much.
• Good outside shooter off catch. Instinctive scorer, but takes bad shots.

gilbert

baron

oh yeah gil duh

i dunno if i can emotionally handle a rondo trade after last years perkins disaster (miss u boo) but cp3 would really handily fill in everything the very rapidly aging big three are missing

dude was a motherfucker last year even on a giant knee brace

and there's something appealing about letting danny and doc get their hooks in him all season to possibly sign beyond the rental

he would certainly be an enormous improvement should he stay healthy & his assist stats should be insane with a team of ppl who can actually shoot/score, how he did it with that bum NOLA team for so long is amazing

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvsqcmR3xe1qz4mngo1_500.jpg

Cool t-shirt, Kobes.

KOBE!!

his daughters are cute

sb kobels

• Talented wing who can shoot, defend and finish. Has skills to be great defender.
• Held back by mental game and poor handle. Turnover- and mistake-prone.
• Gaining a rep for selfish play. Will take poor shots. Rarely passes.

nick young

paul george?

thaddeus young?

monta ellis?

are ellis and young "wings?"

this particular guy impressed me as a 6th-man type on a contender a couple years ago, but his stock fell enough that he was traded and is sort of forgotten now.

ah, is it ariza?

no but that type of guy

agahgh feel like this guy is on the tip of my tongue

never was quite as good as ariza but prob had more potential

jeff green, lol

no but that's a good guess too

i don't see myself ever repping for jeff green

i might rep for him if he legally changed his name to "jeff green, lol"

moar hints

Kobe wearing a Kobe t-shirt

I mean, duh, of course

is it... HEDO???

no but you're real close

pietrus?

courtney lee?

hmmmmmmm

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
New Orleans strongly engaged with Clippers, Warriors and Celtics in trade talks for Chris Paul on Tuesday, league sources tell Y!

pietrus?

― v-shasty, Tuesday, December 6, 2011 5:46 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

yup

totally forgot that they got rid of him

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski -- Paul has indicated Clippers and Warriors could raise chances of keeping him long-term if they sign center Tyson Chandler too, sources say.

feel like 'poor handle' is a strong clue

but every time I think 'big man with poor handle' I think of that clip of z-bo losing the handle on a cross and hoisting up an airball at the shot clock expiration

c'mon nba make your crazy trades and settle the storm. we have a fantasy draft on sunday.

totally forgot that they got rid of him

― v-shasty, Tuesday, December 6, 2011 5:51 PM (13 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

he's so forgotten!

c'mon nba make your crazy trades and settle the storm. we have a fantasy draft on sunday.

― ~occubarn~ (clay), Tuesday, December 6, 2011 5:52 PM (5 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

so i don't think camps are even opening until monday now since teams haven't been filled out at all. not sure if we can wait to draft?

feel like 'poor handle' is a strong clue

but every time I think 'big man with poor handle' I think of that clip of z-bo losing the handle on a cross and hoisting up an airball at the shot clock expiration

― dayo, Tuesday, December 6, 2011 4:51 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Permalink

this is prob the funniest video on youtube, w/ that music in the background

who does he even play for now

suns right?

yeah

btw this is a great no-nonsense magic highlight tape w/ lots of stuff I hadn't seen before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI

so i don't think camps are even opening until monday now since teams haven't been filled out at all. not sure if we can wait to draft?

yeah I'd rather do this like a day or two before the season starts, but that's Christmas Time and people might be pretty busy / on vacation so maybe the Sunday before? Bison?

if the draft is gonna be this sunday as posted in the league, i need to know soon because it will affect my plans for this weekend

what do yall feel like are good draft days besides the 18th? im hella busy with my church that day and night.

afternoon of Saturday the 17th?

POSSIBLY, any other yeasayers?

any weekend is good 4 me

p.s. switching up the draft day isn't gonna stop you from losing

basically any time is great for me except the exact time that it's currently set to

that saturday should work and i can also do weeknights

i'm gonna hop in this btw, i'm good w/ any dates besides fri nights & sun mornings

i've never played fantasy before & would be interested in doing this but that weekend is no good for me & earlier than that is even worse. go on w/out me

k3v you can just autodraft

yeah, rank the players when you have a free hour or so and just let it autodraft

or pop in for 20 mins and draft your first four or so guys and then drop out

this is gonna be pretty sweet having more IlH reg posters in the fantasy league this year, amped

I will try and get in on this as well.

I'll make the change to sat PM on the 17th

omg can u guys make a thread for yr horrible fantasy holocaust thx

that's a different fantasy league, u draft despots and whoever kills the most ppl wins a trophy

ayo i'm cool with this weekend or next but the league still says this sunday

need 2 b in draft b/c i need to DEFEND MY TITLE bam

I haven't changed it yet, I'm a busy man

i trust u m bison its yahoo i dont trust

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
The Spurs have decided to use the amnesty clause on contract of Richard Jefferson, league sources tell Y! Sports. He has 3 years, $30M left.
8 minutes ago

first guy amnestied!

how does the amnesty clause work? you get to cut ppl?

You get to cut them and have to pay them their full contract but it doesn't count against your salary cap. (or it counts less, or something)

and there's a bidding process for who can sign jefferson (i.e., he isn't a total free agent).

it doesn't count at all against cap or luxury tax iirc

The Spurs watch every penny. Small market, you know.

they're aggressively pursuing caron butler.

lol caron butler is not better than richard jefferson particularly

true, but apparently he's their target.

maybe they think jefferson has nothing left?