As we prepare for our new lives on ILX2, this is where we say our goodbyes to those of us staying in the sandbox

Stay strong, man.

She never here.

[Chorus]
I'll see you when you get there
If you ever get there
See you when you get there
I'll see you when you get there
If you ever get there
See you when you get there

[Verse Two: Lek Ratt - 40 Thevz]
More temptation than faith, I guess we livin for the day
I seen a man get swept off his feet, by a boy with an AK
The situation so twisted everybody gettin lifted
I'm just tryin to take care of my kids and handle my business
Cause it way too serious so you gotta pay close attention
So you don't get caught sittin' when they come and do all the gettin
Life is a big game so you gotta play it with a big heart
Some of us gotta run a little faster cause we gotta lay the struggle
I'd be a fool to surrender when I know I can be a contender
If everybody's a sinner then everybody can be a winner
No matter your rag colour, deep down we all brothers
And regardless of the time, somebody up there still love us
I'ma scuffle and struggle until I'm breathless and weak
I done strived my whole life to make it to the mountain peak
Always keep reaching sure to grab on to something
I'll be there when you get there with muted sounds bumpin

[Chorus]

[Verse Three: PS - 40 Thevz]
You need to loosen up and live a little
And if you got kids let them know how you feelin
For your own sake give a little
Oh, you don't want to hear that, you busy tryina stack
And keep up with the Joneses, takin advantage of your own
The realest homies that you've been knowing for the longest
But some ain't missing a good thing until it's gone
Could have built an empire if not for the jealousy that divides us
We prefer to keep our eyes shut till it's right
When there's something involved that we desire
So hold your head up high if your're poor and righteous
I know times seem strife, and problems seem endless
But at the times of despair we gotta put ourselves together
And if you feel you're out of the game then you need to get back in it
Cause nothing worse than a quitter
you gotta face responsibility one day, my brother
So wrap up your pity and turn it to ambition
And put your vehicle in 'drive' and stop by my side

[Chorus]

[Outro: Coolio]
As we walk down the road of our destiny
And the time comes to choose which shall it be
The wide and crooked, or the straight and narrow
We got one voice to give and one life to live
Stand up for something or lie down in your game
Listen to the song that we sing
It's up to you to make it big
I guess I'll see you when you see me

[Chorus] - to fade

You're dropping the sandbox?

er, obviously, dude. WTF would be the point of two ILXes?

the sandbox was originally meant to be a code testing ground. that was all.

then, during the ILX outage of late last year, it became a replacement ILX.

again, when JW ensured the real ILX1 got closed for good, this became the real ILX.

now the real ILX is back. once the apache issues are fixed so everyone can connect (mitya and noodle vague, for instance, can't get in at all) this will be closed down.

I'm out.

Andy Murray + a glass cock say "BYE"

That's like saying Muhammed Atta is the reason why Ted Kennedy is placed on a dangerous passenger list and I have to take my shoes off at the airport.

good job this isn't the real world, isn't it?

maybe if people didn't bandy around phrases such as "looks like shit" and appreciated that, as people keep saying, nu-ILX was rushed into being and still needs some work, the coding and design team might be able to spend less time defending themselves and more time listening to what people are saying.

i have to say, though: if i was involved with the design and coding, which i'm not, i'd pay far more attention to the many posters who articulate their points reasonably than i would to the ones who say "dudes it looks like shit LOL at your unpaid toil".

just a thought, though. just a thought.

IMPORTANT ISSUES i kno...

Like why is there so much space between posts over there? Is there a good reason for it?

Maybe if it wasn't rushed into being and was only unveiled when it was really up to snuff, all that outrage wouldn't have happened?

Also THEY HAVE ALREADY SAID they're going to make it look more like the original ILX. FFS.

I think the new threads look better now fwiw.

That one I can and will blame on Jon. Fucking with old ILx when it was creaking along on its deathbed was a dick move.

But doing it without looking like a dick...THAT is the real challenge.

That's bullshit. You didn't have to kill the old board, regardless of how little you trust Jon or any other random hacker who might have tried to exploit the security holes in the boards.

Jon may heave been tthe impetus but you made the decision; blaming Jon basically allows you to foist unfinished code on people without taking any of the heat or responsibility for people's negative reactions to it.

Once it happens, would you really keep the board up knowing how volatile it is?

At some point people should be able to actually blame something bad on Jon and not experience weird non-sequitur backlash from 75% of the posters because they've never seen a script kiddie before and think it's all just a bit of fun. (not saying you are part of that)

(xpost: Oh, don't think for a second that I don't think Jon was being harmless! He wasn't! I am, in harsher terms, making the point stated in your first sentence. People should blame Jon for being a poor-impulse-contol fuckwit rather than for the way nu-ILX looked upon rollout.)

Jon may heave been tthe impetus but you made the decision

that's reasonably put, dan. and my first reaction was FFS, dudes, you took down THE WHOLE BOARD because jon stuck his dick in it again?

but - as ISTR was explained - there was no backup and jon had basically given himself full DB access. the mods and admins decided - rightly, IMHO - that this was way too dangerous a situation.

and i happen to agree. plenty of people said: "wot? come on. JW wouldn't delete the board."

personally, i've seen enough of his "zany" "antics" to have every belief that he would. all in all, i think the right decision was made; YMMV.

ultimately, y'know, it's only a message board. but i'd have been a bit fucked off had it been wiped completely.

You didn't have to kill the old board

true. but jon didn't have to fuck with it.

The choices were kill the old board, or secure it to make it safe from J Random Hacker (known exploits of ILX: 0) and Jon (known exploits: loads). I took the risk of running it when I was just fighting J Random Hacker. I wasn't prepared to do that against Jon. Even if he wouldn't have deleted the boards or done something grave knowingly, he was stumbling in the dark looking for exploits. Whose to say he wouldn't cause damage unintentionally? Damage I'd have to try and fix? fuck that.

I'm not blaming him for how the code looks, and I have been trying to make it look more ILXy as fast as possible. I am blaming him for putting me in the position where the choice was board down or board open to the elements.

what would you have done?

he would never have deleted it - he cares about it far too much ... the idea that jon would have deleted the board is retardery of the highest order

yeh, whatever. dude "cares" so much about the board that he rendered large parts of it pretty much completely unusable with his little CSS hissy-fit.

dude lacks self-control. ppl like that shouldn't have DB-level access, no?

:)

I've suspected this hole for 2 years or so and you know what I did? Banned one poster. There are moderators who are routinely more disruptive.

Stet genuinely believed that there had been a remote privilege escalation to get admin on the db itself, which is one step away from rooting the machine.

This is a good point; its not like they lied about what they thought had happened, they didn't understand it until I emailed them. Apparently, they had trouble telling what was going on due to some Graham inherited mess.

jon "helpfully" pointing out the flaws in the code to every passing hacker was v useful.

Seriously, fuck you. I haven't even *hinted* to anyone except to the admins what the (admittedly trivial) method I used was. Why don't I just post it here since it'll give stet an excuse to close the sandbox force shitty java-ilx on us!

http://www.thedarksidecometh.com/blogger/reichstag-burn.jpg

"jon" = "anybody anywhere who knows some trivial xss and javascript"

I've pointed out gaping security holes WRT to admins on boards being able to inject javascript into ilx and do bad things, but I figured this was a non issue and it is rather rude to take over someone else's login name, so I left it alone.

what? Because I disagree with you? Its not like I fucked with the sandbox.

OTM.

I still don't understand what Jon has to do with it. All I'm saying is we could have posted on the Sandbox for another month or two while you tinkered with Nu-ILX. You said earlier that the Sandbox probably would last until June. (Or was Sandbox upkeep too much work?)

If you can't revive old threads, start new ones.

With regard to the other features, the problem is they're server-intensive, right? So it makes sense to see how well the new code copes with normal (ie very high) levels of traffic first - other features can be added later if they're feasible.

Leaving everything else aside, I think the thing that bothered people was that a lot of decisions were made without respect to community consensus -- like the way the login / user name system works, the layout changes. To call it done without a call for a broader vetting is not good.

that's dumb (imo), and reviving is one thing but being able to retreive and read them in the first place just as desirable.

yeah but people only care about community consensus when it suits THEM, ain't that right

2. I just sent stet another CSS update, to fix a few more things. unfortunately until we can edit a few more things about the placement of certain elements this last one appears to be the extent of my ability to alter look+feel.

ok i don't want to get in on this argument because i have multiple minds about it, but in fairness--couldn't he do the exact same thing HERE? what is the difference? this is what i genuinely do not understand about the drama, is that other-ILX was taken down but this one left up even though i was under the impression both have the same vulnerabilities.

Google cache.

I still like my 'smash up the old code' idea.

one day someone will explain this to me. i think i turned up here just as/after it was happening. it had something to do with john d fucking off, amirite?

me, i was just bothered by the selection of threads, i did not enjoy the ones picked ;_;

The pdf I supplied got rejected through compatibility issues, so it never got made.

Jon: That's a really good point about the democratic bit. But there was a huge haul to get the cache up and going (which should be considered feature number 1: 0.2% server load! 0 db hits! that's amazing considering size of ILX, small size of server etc) and put the basics in place. The room for feature requests until we were sure that worked was pretty small.

The rest of it is definitely going to be democratic. Keith's going to do a poll to ask people what tehy want "fixed" first.

You realize, of course, that the main Sandbox holdouts at this point are the Chicago and DC threads?

why does that piece of shit ILX over there keep LOGGING ME OUT???????
-- Little kernel of salty honey (samsajk...), February 22nd, 2007. (crunkleJ) (later) (link)

I don't want to keep switching. I like this model.
-- Eazy (chicagoflaneu...), February 22nd, 2007. (Eazy) (later) (link)

>>so have we all decided to stay in the sandbox for now?

I think so, especially since the last 2 times I've tried to visit the other place it's been unavailable.
-- Little kernel of salty honey (samsajk...), February 22nd, 2007. (crunkleJ) (later) (link)

it's wider but thinner. is this really such a problem? i much prefer the new one.

i guess a poll is the only way to sort out even these trifles.

(the only other things on my wishlist are a) the return of html and b) the return of display names, and while i know no consensus will ever be reached on what everyone wants back, i think those are both kinda popular opinions)

I completely and utterly agree with this. I only bashed together the first CSs in five minutes to make it not look zany different (which it did before!)

I'm still in favour of stylesheets as much as possible though, instead of forcing it in HTML. My shitty phone browser used to grin at ILX HRs.

The signature line needs fixing too. I can't say this enough: Yes the look is anus, Yes we're fixing it asap. The new site is ont about the presentation, I probably haven't made that clear enough. That aspect of it is not "new ilx" -- it's "in the fucking way". New ILX is the fast threads, the no-breaking down, the no-security-holes and the waves of irritation.

also, the too-wide grey thing doesn't sit to well. i keep scrolling no matter how wide my browser is.

I don't need two big lines of too-big board links before getting to the posting box.

Sure I'll learn whatever shit Java servlet crap they use. Are you helping??

All your suggestions otm tho.

There is nothing wrong with ILX 3.0.2

-- Ed (dal...), February 22nd, 2007 4:12 PM. (dali) (later)

Although questioned by American authorities, al-Sahaf was released, and there has been no suggestion of charging or detaining him for his role in the Saddam Hussein government. He is now living in the United Arab Emirates with his family.

When asked where he had got his information he replied, "authentic sources—many authentic sources".[4] He pointed out that, he "was a professional, doing his job".

Aw I'm glad things worked out for him!!!! <3

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/

Goodbye, Storyville.

been a ride

been a ride

It's like Ste just got up and walked off the diamond into the cornfield.