catholics, blacks, jews, women, hispanics, mormons, serial divorcer, old dudes, gays, atheists

http://www.sg.hu/kep/2003_07/jlo2.jpg

I saw a panel on CNN a couple weeks ago where a GWU professor was passionately arguing for civil rights & affirmative action, then she did an about-face and essentially said that atheists need to get out of town.

I've been an atheist for 25 years, and this seems like a new attitude? Weird.

this is a song in the making

New to me. Seems like a lot more out-in-the-open hostility then there used to be. Someone on the CNN panel attributed it to "activist atheists".

that's crazy talk.

I don't think the sentiment against electing atheists is at all new. the pretense in American political discourse that everyone believes in god is longstanding.

In 1980, her son William converted to Christianity and was born again at a Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas, where he took up work as a preacher. This led to a permanent estrangement between mother and son. As she put it, "One could call this a postnatal abortion on the part of a mother, I guess; I repudiate him entirely and completely for now and all times... He is beyond human forgiveness."

Sounds like she earned some of that hatred - what a biyatch!

what a completely religious thing to say! what's "beyond human" for an atheist?

I imagine there's a lot of people in blue states who just don't think about it much.

Aren't public spokespersons basically synonymous with aggressive jerks?

I think this would possibly be the worst idea ever.

Sorry, not a card-carrying member.

still there are plenty of christians who can tell the difference between a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, a pagan, and an atheist.

I think this would possibly be the worst idea ever.

What else can you do, if you want to get rid of such distrust?

Dawkins on it

Probably nothing.

For this to be true you'd have to think human beings are born believing in some deity.

That's like "let's water you down so you're more acceptable to the people who baselessly distrust you!"

"What else can you do, if you want to get rid of such distrust?"

Probably nothing.

Defeatist much?

also atheism IS basically threatening to religion. Its an inherently reactionary stance against an existing philosophical structure (like Satanism with Catholicism).

This is nuts. How is not believing in God a reactionary stance? Atheists don't threaten religion. This is like in-defense-of-marriage thinking.

Second of all Satanists hate Christians, not just Catholics.

er Edward (sorry not keeping these different lines of conversation very straight)

This is like saying someone who grows up Jewish and converts to Islam is reacting against Judaism. It's like saying my preference for chocolate is a reaction against vanilla. As far as the etymology of the word, that's a weakness of the English language, it doesn't necessarily speak to anything inherent in the philosophy.

Eva, atheist = believes there is no god, agnostic = unsure of whether there is a god or not, or believes proof of either case is impossible.

Yeah, but this is different than saying it's a reactionary stance. Otherwise you could claim that, for example, being a muslim is a reactionary stance against christianity.

Atheism's central tenet is that there is no God. If a religious institution feels "threatened" by that belief, then they are paranoid.

Was it confirmed that she was brutally murdered? I thought that she went the Jimmy Hoffa route.

Atheism's central tenet is that there is no God. If a religious institution feels "threatened" by that belief, then they are paranoid.

I'd actually take that further and say that if a religious person feels threatened by an atheist, it's probably a reaction to their own insecurity about their religious beliefs.

I think its reactionary in the sense that everyone is exposed to religious ideas in some form or another as a child (and even moreso as an adult), and that atheism springs from a rejection of those ideas, whatever form they may take.

-- horseshoe (rosalind51...), February 21st, 2007. (later)

Nothing; that's why the speaker cannot forgive him. It's not an inherently religious thing to say. He has passed the capacity for human forgiveness and as such cannae be forgave.

well duh. that doesn't make it any less threatening.

it went unsolved for a long time, but yes, bodies were found, case was prosecuted, etc.

What if you're raised an atheist? Furthermore, atheism doesn't necessarily come from active rejection of anything. In my case, for example, it felt pretty much like a logical conclusion. I wasn't strongly indoctrinated into any religion, so I didn't feel like I was rejecting anything. Of course you could say that every part of your worldview is a rejection of some other, alternative point of view, but I find that a wrongheaded way of putting things.

If choosing a path is reactionary then all paths are reactionary. Is Christianity reactionary in relation to Judiasm?

I was somehow left completely devoid of a religious education as a child (despite both my parents being Christians of a sort, my brother was baptized, and my extended family are all highly religious). It just never happened. Never went to church, never made to pray, nada.

I was, however, exposed to Christianity (as all Americans are) through the culture. But I never reacted against that (aside from joking about Satan-worship in school).

For me atheism isn't a reaction to anything - God never entered the picture for me to react against.

haha given the history of Christianity and its roots actually yes, it is.

obviously how "reactionary" something is depends on what came first. I would hope this is a fairly simple concept to grasp. Seeing as how the religious instinct is at the basic, historical root of human culture, I don't have any problem assigning it a primary role.

I think you're overlooking the pejorative nature of the term "reactionary," which implies a lack of validity in the viewpoint being espoused.

This is a key point, but I'd say "if you believe that proper ethics/morals/codes of behavior can only come from religious systems." Atheists can be moral people, and have the same struggles of conscience that religious people have. Apparently that's a mind-blowing concept for religious people.

If religious people are inherently more moral than atheists why are there so many religious people in jail?

silly for you! my people are being persecuted!

maybe *I* should be the atheist spokesperson.

Except that we're not talking about "religious people", we're talking about a very specific subset(sizeable tho it is). And for this subset, yeah, they see atheists as immoral/amoral folks. This ain't something they have evidence about or have necessarily reasoned into, but it's there.

okay, corrected

God is man's first cure for anxiety disorder.

Most people are more afraid of their absolute mortality than they are of hell. This is why they hate and distrust atheists.

the whole thing: http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=26611

1. whoops, forgot to turn on killfile! shakey problem fixed.
2. it's really freaking me the fuck out that mitt romney is running and that maybe people will vote for him. people, he is mormon. i was raised mormon. they are fucking crazy and evil. you don't know crazy and evil. this isn't just about personal belief. it's about an entire, malignant worldview that will fuck everyone over. anyone even remotely connected to the religion will take it as a mandate from god like you wouldn't even believe and actively work for their armaggeddon fantasies like you wouldn't believe. mormons are PROFOUNDLY anti-human. people complain about bush using god as justification for his fantasy world--YOU DON'T EVEN FUCKING KNOW. AND THERE WILL BE ARNOLD FRIEBERG PAINTINGS IN THE WHITE HOUSE. DON'T DO IT AMERICA, IT WILL DESTROY YOU.